Stage II heads on a stock block??
- Thread starter CTX-SLPR
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- May 26, 2001
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Guess maybe 8 of the 14 bolts will try to hold the heads down if the large valves will clear the cylinder walls? Then you need different [stage II] intake, headers, cam/lifters, roller rockers, valve covers, etc. to work with them.
Well I have a production 4.1 so the valves shouldn't be a problem. I already knew about the intake and am looking into that, but as far as cam stuff and rockers... thats something I hadn't considered but of those I currently only have 1.65 T&D's, and they are easy to sell if need be. Anyway to tell if they are intended for one head style or another, because other than the clearance issues on the pedistals they bolted right to my 8445's and 6293's? The heads I'm looking at are off center NASCAR heads with titanium valves but no springs or anything, considering at this point all I've got is a short block assembled would it be worth it to put a set of $100 SII heads on it if I still have to get the cam, header, intake and such?
Thanks,
Thanks,
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The approx. prices for cam, lifters, headers, intake and misc. stuff would be $3500-4000, unless you can find REALLY good deals on used stufff.
My limited experience with stage II builds is that unless you have lots of real good supporting items, like massive a turbo, aftermarket heads will do the job into the 8's, at least easy 9's. Still need a rather big turbo and the other parts necessary even then.
The TA alum block/heads, stock intake Duttweiler did last summer dynoed 1180 HP as a reference.
My limited experience with stage II builds is that unless you have lots of real good supporting items, like massive a turbo, aftermarket heads will do the job into the 8's, at least easy 9's. Still need a rather big turbo and the other parts necessary even then.
The TA alum block/heads, stock intake Duttweiler did last summer dynoed 1180 HP as a reference.
My question is why? Not to crap on what you are attempting to do, I just don't see the gains versus the headache. Didn't rjc make an adapter to do just what you are talking about?REDS HOT AIR
Buick Tweaker
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I'd say do it if you had all the stuff to do it with but you dont have anything but a big enough bore so far
stage 2 heads do not like to make power at low rpm's due to the huge by wide ports so you need a bottom end that will take 7000+ rpms
to run it on the street you would need to change the exhaust valves out for stainless
not only would you need a bigger cam but the valve arrangment is different so it has to be a cam for stage 2 heads
headers, big turbo, down pipe, intake, convert a carb intake to fuel injection, a plenum to put a t/b on that would bolt to the carb flange, i/c plumbing, and alot of other things come to mind when going from production style heads to stage heads
and having the pistons notched for valve clearence
the heads themselves are the cheapest part to running stage heads
If you dont deside to use them I am in the market for a matching set of stage heads
stage 2 heads do not like to make power at low rpm's due to the huge by wide ports so you need a bottom end that will take 7000+ rpms
to run it on the street you would need to change the exhaust valves out for stainless
not only would you need a bigger cam but the valve arrangment is different so it has to be a cam for stage 2 heads
headers, big turbo, down pipe, intake, convert a carb intake to fuel injection, a plenum to put a t/b on that would bolt to the carb flange, i/c plumbing, and alot of other things come to mind when going from production style heads to stage heads
and having the pistons notched for valve clearence
the heads themselves are the cheapest part to running stage heads
If you dont deside to use them I am in the market for a matching set of stage heads
Nick,
How much would cam stuff, rockers, and headers run me? If I do this I'm building my own sheetmetal intake so I can negate that cost down to the metal and fuel rail fabrication. I want to run a GT35R or similar with ported 8445's now and am considering building an intake for stock head too. I guess I should ask differential pricing to be honest. SII roller cam stuff over production style roller stuff, SII headers over ATR SS..... that kind of thing, assuming I get it all for average used prices except the cam stuff. Heck I'll even ask how much different for used SII twin headers over the ATR SS ones.
Thanks,
How much would cam stuff, rockers, and headers run me? If I do this I'm building my own sheetmetal intake so I can negate that cost down to the metal and fuel rail fabrication. I want to run a GT35R or similar with ported 8445's now and am considering building an intake for stock head too. I guess I should ask differential pricing to be honest. SII roller cam stuff over production style roller stuff, SII headers over ATR SS..... that kind of thing, assuming I get it all for average used prices except the cam stuff. Heck I'll even ask how much different for used SII twin headers over the ATR SS ones.
Thanks,
I think its an example of what the stock style stuff is capable of producing top end wise since the TA heads use the production port layout vs the SII. I don't know that you're talking about with the RJC thing but I'm thinking the head clamp. Anyway, its mainly becase I've found a cheap set and like always, something cheap gets me interested in if I can use it for correspondingly cheap.
Thanks,
Thanks,
Yes, I am an ass.... and a troublemaker.
Ctx, if you can find a good pair of tt used headers for sale, they will probably run you about a grand. To custom make them like the ones duttweiler made me can range from 1500 to about 3000 from someone like kooks.
Good luck.
Ctx, if you can find a good pair of tt used headers for sale, they will probably run you about a grand. To custom make them like the ones duttweiler made me can range from 1500 to about 3000 from someone like kooks. Good luck.sounds like the perfect project to test my welding skills.... custom SII headers, custom sheetmetal intake, custom downpipe (already going to have to do that). If I did all that, I'd get in Car Craft for sure after stuffing it all into a 65 Riviera. Though if I fully utilize the potential of SII heads I think the production 4.1 will quickly decide to start dividing into useless pieces and I'll be looking for an S1 block to put all this on and then I'll probably just use all 14 bolts. Anybody make an Iron 14 bolt head?
Thanks,
Thanks,
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The cam really gets sticky. The blank is stage II only like Red stated. The only lifers I have used are the off-set solids. Do not see how these would even work in a stock block? Heard of hydraulics being used, but these are in a stage block.
The stage II billet cam, machining, hold down parts alone would probably be $600 or more.
Always good to see inquiring minds ask lots of questions. Love to see a stage II in that Riv!
The stage II billet cam, machining, hold down parts alone would probably be $600 or more.
Always good to see inquiring minds ask lots of questions.
Love to see a stage II in that Riv!Got a stage block for me then Nick???
I think it would be cool but right now I think 450 hp at the flywheel will be enough to toy with till I got enough money for a TA or can find a 4.1 SI or SII block for it, though I'd like to stay away from the SII's due to the oiling complications and the like. I'm not entirely sure why I'm even going down this road since I'm personally a bit weird when it comes to engine stuff. I personally don't like putting Al heads on a Fe block though people do it all the time, same with going speed density EFI vs mass airflow, same type deal. What I really want to do is get an aftermarket EFI set up capable of running each bank like an I3 with its own MAF, ignition controls, O2's, and SFI injection contols then put that on an SII/TA 274 twin turbo and put it in a tube framed 61 Buick Special and use it for land speed/ open road racing.
Thanks for indulging me Nick,
I think it would be cool but right now I think 450 hp at the flywheel will be enough to toy with till I got enough money for a TA or can find a 4.1 SI or SII block for it, though I'd like to stay away from the SII's due to the oiling complications and the like. I'm not entirely sure why I'm even going down this road since I'm personally a bit weird when it comes to engine stuff. I personally don't like putting Al heads on a Fe block though people do it all the time, same with going speed density EFI vs mass airflow, same type deal. What I really want to do is get an aftermarket EFI set up capable of running each bank like an I3 with its own MAF, ignition controls, O2's, and SFI injection contols then put that on an SII/TA 274 twin turbo and put it in a tube framed 61 Buick Special and use it for land speed/ open road racing.
Thanks for indulging me Nick,
