Starting T-Type After LONG Term Storage

[87_TX_T-Type]

No. you need a bigger vacuum line than that. T off the pcv line or get a new distribution block with the extra tap for vacuum brakes.

Slow progress, but progress nonetheless. Today I drove the car down the street for the first time in 10 years!

Car ran great, but still needs some fine tuning. However... BRAKES STILL NEED WORK. I did T off the pcv line, and I am getting vacuum to the booster. I tried using a Might-Vac to bleed, but it just wasn't working. Ended up doing a manual bleed, but I think my assistant was more interested in her Instagram account than pumping the brakes... so probably need to do that again.

The brake pedal doesn't fully rise/return after being depressed. (Have to pull up the pedal with my toe.) Pedal is a little soft too.

Need to do a little research on the pedal not fully returning, but suggestions are always welcome.

I'll post a video once I get the rear bumper and lights back on.

 

[87_TX_T-Type]

So I may have found out the culprit to the soft/low brake pedal issue.

I had noticed a very small puddle of brake fluid (5-10 drops) below the prop valve. Originally I thought this might be a little bit of overfill/spillage from topping off the master cylinder despite having a lot of rags to catch any spills.

After finding those drop a second time after moving the car, it looks like one of the feeder lines is leaking or not seated fully in the prop valve. And if fluid is getting out, then air is definitely getting in.

I'm going to re-seat and re-teflon the fitting, then re-bleed the MC and lines to see if that is the problem. Hopefully that is the issue, just a shame considering how much time I've spent trying to get air out of the system.

 

[87_TX_T-Type]

Well, this leak is still pestering me. It is coming from the prop valve... probably from the lines going to the front calipers AND possibly the "safety" valve. I tightened the couplings to the front calipers more, but I'm afraid of butchering those brass threads if I tighten any farther.

20171014_165739_resized

• 87_TX_T-Type
• Oct 15, 2017

There is brake fluid from the two circled areas. Since the spot on the right is higher, I presume it is coming from the top brake line OR the safety valve.

Has anyone ever experienced a leak from this valve (or is it even possible)?

20171014_165757_resized

• 87_TX_T-Type
• Oct 15, 2017

Here is the valve with the rubber cover off, and the line that goes to the front left caliper. There isn't any obvious leakage here, but one or both must be the culprit.

My next move is to remove and re-teflon the nut threads, as well put some teflon tape around the actual line closer to the head for good measure.

Any suggestions are welcome!

Good news is that rear bumper fillers, bumper, and taillights were installed today, so it finally looks like a complete car (even if it doesn't like to stop). Need to give car a quick bath, and snap some shots for the forum.

 

[turbo87adam]

Unfortunately you will need to re-flare the brake line connection. The seal is made on the double flare connection surface not the flare nut threads. As far as the plug leaking I would contact the business you purchased it from and see if they have a repair solution or if they will send you a replacement.

 

[Lil Truck]

I had a leak from the valve you circled, I removed it cleaned and sealed but I don't remember what I sealed it with? I believe I bought it at Kirbans they told me they would replace it if it continued to leak. It stopped and has been fine since 2011.

 

[87_TX_T-Type]

Good to know. I didn't even think about re-flaring the tubing.

As far as the valve goes, I'll see if the re-flare fixes my problem first. These garbage design prop valves are not worth the brass they are made of.

 

[87_TX_T-Type]

So I'm just going to throw this out there to see what sticks...

- Re-flared the lines that were leaking. All good now.
- Re-bled the MC with a vacuum while on the car. (Not a true bench bleed.)
- Re-bled each wheel.
- Pedal was firm after bleeding WITH the car OFF.
- Pedal rises a little slowly, but still rises.

Turn the car on... brakes go soft... no better than before. Definitely not drive-able.

I've read the re-man'd boosters and master cylinders are sometimes defective out of the box, possibly causing the soft pedal.

It could also be that vacuum bleeding the MC on the car was not enough, and a proper bench bleed is necessary.

What am I missing? Maybe not enough vacuum?

 

[earlbrown]

Pop the front wheels off and force the calipers as open as they will go. Do the PS first then the DS.

If you have any hair hanging out around the MC that just won't pump all the way down hill to the bleed nipples, that operation will shoot it all into the reservoir and burp it out.

 

[87_TX_T-Type]

Pop the front wheels off and force the calipers as open as they will go. Do the PS first then the DS.

If you have any hair hanging out around the MC that just won't pump all the way down hill to the bleed nipples, that operation will shoot it all into the reservoir and burp it out.

Good thinking. I rebuilt the front calipers, so there definitely could be air trapped in there.

Odd thing... when I vacuum bleed the fronts, I can never get a solid stream of fluid. Mostly air for not matter how long I vacuum. However, if I pedal bleed the front - no problem getting a solid stream. (Might be pulling air in around the bleeder valve threads with the vacuum.)

 

[RmvBfrFlght]

The M/C is tipped upward via the booster. That is why you can't get the air out of it. The fastest way to bench bleed is to use the plugged port method. Take M/C off car, plug the two outlet ports. Hold M/C with the nose of it at a slight downward angle.

Using something to push on the M/C piston (phillipes screwdriver works). Push the M/C piston in about 1/2" and release. Eventually you won't be able to push the piston in any more then about 1/16" when it goes solid. The bench bleed is done.

Mount the M/C to the booster, remove a plug and install line. Quickly do the other plug & line. See how the pedal is.

Note that when vacuum bleeding it is common to pull air past the bleeder threads. Some PTFE paste on the threads helps reduce it.

RemoveBeforeFlight

 

[87_TX_T-Type]

The M/C is tipped upward via the booster. That is why you can't get the air out of it. The fastest way to bench bleed is to use the plugged port method. Take M/C off car, plug the two outlet ports. Hold M/C with the nose of it at a slight downward angle.

Using something to push on the M/C piston (phillipes screwdriver works). Push the M/C piston in about 1/2" and release. Eventually you won't be able to push the piston in any more then about 1/16" when it goes solid. The bench bleed is done.

Couple of quick questions... I think I'm confused by "plugging" the ports.
1) Do you mean plug using a coupler an tubing to re-feed the reservoir brake fluid as you push in? Or "plug" as in block off?
2) If you plug/block off the ports, won't the plugs get pushed out when you push in the piston? Isn't that where the air needs to escape?

This is basically how I did it once before.

 

[earlbrown]

Might be pulling air in around the bleeder valve threads with the vacuum.)

You are. The past of least resistance is to draw air around the threads rather than 'suck' fluid all the way past the MC seals.

I've NEVER had any luck with that method. When it comes to bleeding I strive for perfection, and drawing a low pressure on the lowest part of a system trying to drag air downhill just never made any sense to me.

Forcing the calipers open has been the best way, for me, to get a brake system rock solid. I got into the habit of that back in my motorcycle racing days. All you needed was to walk up with pliers, screwdriver, or anything that could pry.. shove the pad away from the rotor, then pump the brake lever. Granted with the car, the wheel generally has to come off, but that's still easier than pushing air out then sucking some new air right back in.

For years now I've wanted to get a spare reservoir cap and put an air fitting on it. That would take 5 minutes and make brake bleeding/flushing 100% dead nuts, and very fast. Not to mention a 1 man job.

 

[RmvBfrFlght]

Couple of quick questions... I think I'm confused by "plugging" the ports.
1) Do you mean plug using a coupler an tubing to re-feed the reservoir brake fluid as you push in? Or "plug" as in block off?
2) If you plug/block off the ports, won't the plugs get pushed out when you push in the piston? Isn't that where the air needs to escape?

This is basically how I did it once before.

Once the M/C's no longer have the residual pressure check valves, I haven't been able to get the loop back method to work. The air goes into the tube then get drawn back into the M/C when the piston is released.

For the plugged port method some folks just hold their fingers over the outlet ports. I had made some plugs with a piece of flared line and the proper tube nuts. Originally I was using these for troubleshooting the brake system by isolating the front and back systems.

They came in handy for bench bleeding the M/C.

When bleeding via the plugged port method the air escapes via the compensation ports. These are the ports in the bottom of the reservoirs that allows fluid into the M/C bore. The first part of this video shows this method:

RemoveBeforeFlight

 

[87_TX_T-Type]

Once the M/C's no longer have the residual pressure check valves, I haven't been able to get the loop back method to work. The air goes into the tube then get drawn back into the M/C when the piston is released.

For the plugged port method some folks just hold their fingers over the outlet ports. I had made some plugs with a piece of flared line and the proper tube nuts. Originally I was using these for troubleshooting the brake system by isolating the front and back systems.

RemoveBeforeFlight

Thanks - I ran across the same video on YouTube. I've got my vice setup finally... not just need to give it a shot. It seems the "plugged" method requires a lot less time and effort than the "tube feed" method. I might try both.

 

[RmvBfrFlght]

I too have found the plugged port method to be fast and easy. Another tip:

If you need to replace a caliper or flex line, find a stick or such to go between the seat bottom and brake pedal. Set it so that it depresses the pedal about an inch. That closes off the compensation ports and prevents gravity from emptying the M/C reservoir.

Note that this will also enable the brake lights, so don't forget to remove it.

RemoveBeforeFlight

 

[87_TX_T-Type]

Big thanks to Earl and RemoveBeforeFlight. I think I'm about 90% there.

Got around to properly bench bleeding the MC. I did it both ways.

First, I tried the tube feed/recirculate; however, I didn't really get any air bubbles. Additionally, I was only able to push the piston in about 2.5-3 inches, and that required a lot of strength. However, many of the things I've read/seen said that's about all you'll get once the MC is fully bled.

Second, I went for the plugged bleed. I pulled off the tubes and inserted the rubber plugs that originally blocked off the ports during shipping. Then I put a washer in between the plug and a c-clamp to make sure the port wouldn't leak. (The washer just allowed the c-clamp to evenly cover and apply pressure to the plug.)

MC

• 87_TX_T-Type
• Nov 8, 2017

Using this method, I maybe saw a bubble, and couldn't press the piston in more than a half inch. Similar to what is in the bench bleeding videos. So, all-in-all, I think the MC was pretty well bled before the process, but I have a lot more confidence that the MC is working properly.

Next I did what Earl suggested, by compressing the front calipers to force out any trapped air. I did this before re-installing the MC. Make sure you have a can in place to catch the displaced fluid. I also topped off both lines going into the MC, just to lessen the chance of more air getting into the MC while attaching the lines.

Got the MC re-installed and attached the lines. Then I went to bleed the four corners again. Unfortunately, I'm without a helper, so I had to rely on the vacuum pump.

Started the car, and the pedal went to the floor... even got the brake light to come on briefly. But after a few pumps the pedal became firmer than it ever has. I still have to lift the brake a little with my toe to get it to come up fully/quickly, but the car was drive-able. Took it up and down the street a couple of times, and it only got better.

There is still some air in the lines, but I think with a proper two-person pedal bleed it will be nearly perfect. I'm also going to compress the calipers during the bleed since that was probably my main culprit.

Thanks for all the advice. Once I have the brakes complete everything else is just cosmetic, and the car will be ready to roll.

 

[87_TX_T-Type]

Good news... put another four corner bleed on the brakes. Pedal is pretty hard when the car is not running, and pedal rebounds well when released.

Then when I started the car the pedal becomes softer, and the pedal doesn't want to return fully.

HOWEVER, I took the car for a drive and the pedal firmed up after about 20-30 seconds. My guess is that the vacuum needs a chance to build. Pedal didn't return fully but just requires a the tip of my toe to pull it up that last inch.

I'm going to try one more 4 corner bleed since I don't think my pedal assistant wasn't putting much ooomf into the pumps.

Anyway, drove the car around the neighborhood for a good 20-30 minutes, and it runs really good. I'll try to post a video soon. Turbo spooled well... good power... no rattles or leaks or backfires.