ok, i changed over my ECM on my 84 to an 87. thought maybe my maf was bad, since i was gonna buy a new one figured i'd change over to 87 ecm. got ecm out of salvage yard along with mat sensor. new maf sensor. when i first got it going everything looked fine maf reading was 5 @ idle. then all of a sudden car started running rough putting out black smoke, want idle no lower than 1025 idle screw all the way out. think maybe i got a vacuum leak? or could the IAC valve cause this? thanks for the replys,
still running rich
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Stephen Soulsby
Guest
Did you have a chip burned for your '87 computer to work with your '84 motor? If you are using the '87 chip then your car will run very rich. Hot-air motors don't like as much gas as their intercooled counterparts and can't handle as much timing advance.
D
dave84gn
Guest
If he got the ECM out of a junkyard, he's probably using the chip that game with it. My guess is he didn't get the ECM from a GN 
Any 86 GM with a 3.8 SFI has em... so my question to you stephan is, wouldn't the stock chip from, say, an 86 delta 88 or park avenue work fine with our cars?
Reason I ask is I just did the same thing as gsbuick65.. got some ECMs and MAT sensors today actually (no MAF yet...), and about to install em on my car.
Dave
Any 86 GM with a 3.8 SFI has em... so my question to you stephan is, wouldn't the stock chip from, say, an 86 delta 88 or park avenue work fine with our cars?Reason I ask is I just did the same thing as gsbuick65.. got some ECMs and MAT sensors today actually (no MAF yet...), and about to install em on my car.
Dave
used the chip that was in the ecm, I followed the instructions at ttype.org heres what it said-- Pitch any other cal-pak with a different number. I downloaded a ROM file from the archives for the prom. Any 86-7 chip should do. what does he mean ROM file? buy the why dont try and find the MAF sensor in a yard that # 7866 is only for the turbo cars. The car was running fine at first and like i said the idle screw is all the way out, so it must be sucking air from somewhere else?
S
Stephen Soulsby
Guest
As far as I know a chip from another car will not function properly. There are many things a turbo motor does that a normal motor's chip wouldn't understand (MAF, timing, mixture). I have never personally tried the swap and don't think I would. To me there is no advantage unless you want to run an electric fan or just gotta have more streaming ECM data for your scanner.
My advice, contact someone at a reputable turbo regal vandor and inquire about a custom chip for the conversion.
My advice, contact someone at a reputable turbo regal vandor and inquire about a custom chip for the conversion.
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dave84gn
Guest
Stephan. What you're saying makes sense. Too bad there isn't a way around buying an extra chip... or even if I could use a regular 86/87 chip (I could borrow one). But I think you're right, if I were to throw a thrasher in mine it would probably run like crap.
So I threw the 86/87 ECM in my car yesterday, put in the cal-pak from my old 84ecm. Car ran normally with my 84MAF, no MAT, and the chip that came with the ECM. No black smoke, no bad idle, everything seems ok. But I still have a prob. I'm getting like 1 knock every second or so if I hold the throttle at 1psi of boost while driving. Anything below that I get no knock at all. I've tried opening the throttle and I got a few knocks and only 10 psi of boost (my wastegate is set low, so I'm guessing since the electronic solinoid is not opening this is expected). Put the MAT sensor in, but haven't had a chance to drive it yet.
Question for anyone: why might I be knocking? I'm thinking it could be that my MAF is reading too low (50 to 70 at 1psi of boost) and causing me to lean out and knock. Or the chip just plain doesn't work properly with our cars and causes a knock somehow or other.
What do ya think?
Dave
ps. gsbuick65: yes it could be the IAC (which is computer controlled). Did you do the IAC reset procedure?
So I threw the 86/87 ECM in my car yesterday, put in the cal-pak from my old 84ecm. Car ran normally with my 84MAF, no MAT, and the chip that came with the ECM. No black smoke, no bad idle, everything seems ok. But I still have a prob. I'm getting like 1 knock every second or so if I hold the throttle at 1psi of boost while driving. Anything below that I get no knock at all. I've tried opening the throttle and I got a few knocks and only 10 psi of boost (my wastegate is set low, so I'm guessing since the electronic solinoid is not opening this is expected). Put the MAT sensor in, but haven't had a chance to drive it yet.
Question for anyone: why might I be knocking? I'm thinking it could be that my MAF is reading too low (50 to 70 at 1psi of boost) and causing me to lean out and knock. Or the chip just plain doesn't work properly with our cars and causes a knock somehow or other.
What do ya think?
Dave
ps. gsbuick65: yes it could be the IAC (which is computer controlled). Did you do the IAC reset procedure?
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dave84gn
Guest
I think he means that he had some sort of way to program his own chips. So all this guy had to do is download a file containing all the info on the chip and then make a chip out of it. Something I'm sure all of us with love to be able to do
Dave
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NOSjohnWE4
Guest
ROM, RAM, RIM? no
ROM blocks are needed in many circuit designs to store constants and/or the fixed (parts of the) program within the custom chip. in a conventional PC, there is ROM memory (read-only memory) and RAM memory (random access memory). the ECM has ROM memory as it only has a set number of instructions (program). if there were a way (custom burn chips?) to add more programs or information then you would need additional storage or RAM. i think this is what you're looking for. i hope it helps.
John Cafolla
MicroZone Consulting
Home or Office Networking/
Repair, Training, Upgrades/
Complete HIGH-END Gaming Systems
*e-mail: jcofolla@twcny.rr.com
*AOL IM: GNjohnny5
ROM blocks are needed in many circuit designs to store constants and/or the fixed (parts of the) program within the custom chip. in a conventional PC, there is ROM memory (read-only memory) and RAM memory (random access memory). the ECM has ROM memory as it only has a set number of instructions (program). if there were a way (custom burn chips?) to add more programs or information then you would need additional storage or RAM. i think this is what you're looking for. i hope it helps.
John Cafolla
MicroZone Consulting
Home or Office Networking/
Repair, Training, Upgrades/
Complete HIGH-END Gaming Systems
*e-mail: jcofolla@twcny.rr.com
*AOL IM: GNjohnny5
figured it out???
ok i think its fixed, the line going to my vapor canister was causing a vacuum leak, so in turn the car idled hi, when i idled it down it brought my tps reading down also, so buy the time i got it even my throttle plate was all the way closed. I disconnected the line going to the vacuum canister and capped off the vacuum port. then i idled the car to about 1500 moved the tps to about 46, when i brought the idle down it inturn brought the tps reading down also. Is this strange or what, or is that what u have to do? So i drove the car tonite seamed to run good. I disconnected the line going to the vacuum canister and capped off the vacuum port. The only thing that looked wrong was the block learn was 110 when the ecm when into closed before when it was open it was 128. Got home pulled a plug out they was black now its white as paper. My neighbor says it looks like its running lean. MIke
84 T-type,W/ 87 ecm, chip, MAF, MAT
P.S. i did the IAC set procedure too
ok i think its fixed, the line going to my vapor canister was causing a vacuum leak, so in turn the car idled hi, when i idled it down it brought my tps reading down also, so buy the time i got it even my throttle plate was all the way closed. I disconnected the line going to the vacuum canister and capped off the vacuum port. then i idled the car to about 1500 moved the tps to about 46, when i brought the idle down it inturn brought the tps reading down also. Is this strange or what, or is that what u have to do? So i drove the car tonite seamed to run good. I disconnected the line going to the vacuum canister and capped off the vacuum port. The only thing that looked wrong was the block learn was 110 when the ecm when into closed before when it was open it was 128. Got home pulled a plug out they was black now its white as paper. My neighbor says it looks like its running lean. MIke
84 T-type,W/ 87 ecm, chip, MAF, MAT
P.S. i did the IAC set procedure too
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dave84gn
Guest
With the chip from the junk yard it probably is running lean. I've just done the exact some thing as you, except I'm using my 84MAF until I can get an 87 one.
My car's running lean I'm pretty sure. I'm getting knock consistently when I go into boost (even 1-3psi). I was just talked to Ken Mosher about this and he says be VERY careful with the junk yard chip. Since it wasn't programmed for a turbo car, it probably won't have any calibration for boost enrichment.
Yes, the TPS reading is proportional to the position of the throttle blade. So if you set your idle lower, your tps should lower too. What you'll need to do is: set your idle. Then set your tps.
Also, do the IAC reset if your IAC values are anything greater than 50# at idle (I think that's right). This is very simple to do.
Your block learn experience is normal. In fact, mine is doing the EXACT same thing. In open loop, the computer will not correct the air/fuel mixture. Once it goes into closed loop (when the O2 sensor is hot enough) it will adjust the amount of fuel it adds at different points along the fuel curve. A lower block learn than 128 means the ECM is adding less fuel than the chip is telling it to.
Let me know how it goes. I'd love to know of any problems (large or small) that you come across and how to fix em. I'm sort of making stuff up as I go along here and I'm not sure if what I do is right sometimes
Dave
My car's running lean I'm pretty sure. I'm getting knock consistently when I go into boost (even 1-3psi). I was just talked to Ken Mosher about this and he says be VERY careful with the junk yard chip. Since it wasn't programmed for a turbo car, it probably won't have any calibration for boost enrichment.
Yes, the TPS reading is proportional to the position of the throttle blade. So if you set your idle lower, your tps should lower too. What you'll need to do is: set your idle. Then set your tps.
Also, do the IAC reset if your IAC values are anything greater than 50# at idle (I think that's right). This is very simple to do.
Your block learn experience is normal. In fact, mine is doing the EXACT same thing. In open loop, the computer will not correct the air/fuel mixture. Once it goes into closed loop (when the O2 sensor is hot enough) it will adjust the amount of fuel it adds at different points along the fuel curve. A lower block learn than 128 means the ECM is adding less fuel than the chip is telling it to.
Let me know how it goes. I'd love to know of any problems (large or small) that you come across and how to fix em. I'm sort of making stuff up as I go along here and I'm not sure if what I do is right sometimes
Dave
dave,
I dont think im getting any knock, got on it alittle today seamed to pick up pretty good, my o2 gauge was showing that the car was running rich when i got on it. so i dont think the chip is leaning it out. pulled the plug when i got home now its looking good,. lite tanish color. I got my info from GN/TTYPE.org.
I dont think im getting any knock, got on it alittle today seamed to pick up pretty good, my o2 gauge was showing that the car was running rich when i got on it. so i dont think the chip is leaning it out. pulled the plug when i got home now its looking good,. lite tanish color. I got my info from GN/TTYPE.org.
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dave84gn
Guest
Sounds good. If I were you I'd be sure you're not getting knock. My knock was no where near audible and it still boosted not bad. And actually yea I think you're right, the chip probably isn't leaning it out (but I wonder why I was getting knock?).
Here's an update on my situation:
Borrowed a stock 87 chip from a friend. Car ran pretty good with only 10psi of boost. Not knocking at all any more... still using the 84MAF.
But I'm still getting garbage data on the turbolink whenever I go WOT. This has been a problem for me for months now that I've been trying overcome. The new ecm is yet another step in my attempt to fix it. However, even though the data goes to complete garbage at WOT, once I let off the throttle it goes back to good data and I can see that the knock count has not increased (thanks to the ecm now providing that info in road mode). So I can actually do some tuning on my new engine now. Oh well, I'll fix this eventually.
Keep posting your progress and experience with the new ecm. Let me know how things go with the junk yard chip.
Dave
Here's an update on my situation:
Borrowed a stock 87 chip from a friend. Car ran pretty good with only 10psi of boost. Not knocking at all any more... still using the 84MAF.
But I'm still getting garbage data on the turbolink whenever I go WOT. This has been a problem for me for months now that I've been trying overcome. The new ecm is yet another step in my attempt to fix it. However, even though the data goes to complete garbage at WOT, once I let off the throttle it goes back to good data and I can see that the knock count has not increased (thanks to the ecm now providing that info in road mode). So I can actually do some tuning on my new engine now. Oh well, I'll fix this eventually.
Keep posting your progress and experience with the new ecm. Let me know how things go with the junk yard chip.
Dave
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dave84gn
Guest
Yea I want to get the MAF eventually. But I'll be out no less than $150 CDN which ain't cheap for me for something that I *might* need. Car seems strong without. As long as I'm not knocking I should be good. I realize the MAF is very important in determining air/fuel mixture. So I may be running either rich or lean. But I'm not leaning out so much as to knock, so that's fine. Running rich won't hurt things except the car'll run like crap
I think I'll save my money this season and I'll pick one up once I get some money (hopefully next season!)
Dave
I think I'll save my money this season and I'll pick one up once I get some money (hopefully next season!)
Dave
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