I recently ran my G-body at the track only to get a best 2.249 sixty foot time while running 13.74 @ 103.68 MPH using BFG 275/40ZRx17 street tires. The car is lowered 2" with Bell Tech spindles up front and Bell Tech lowering coils out back. Shocks are KYB Gas up front and Bell Tech Gas in rear. The rear LCA's are fully box welded and I have zero wheel hop. The upper control arms are stock and I have used the 1LE bushings at all locations with the exception of the upper bushings in the housing. These are new OEM stock G-body bushings. Needless to say the rear suspension is very firm. Race weight is ~ 3600 w/driver. Any ideas short of stickier tires to get the 60' times below 2.0? Thanks.
Suspension mods for lowered vehicles
- Thread starter John B
- Start date
REDS HOT AIR
Buick Tweaker
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
good tires is probly your best bet ..
my buddys GN hag the same lowering as yours and on good tires it hooks hard and goes 1.6's 60ft.
my buddys GN hag the same lowering as yours and on good tires it hooks hard and goes 1.6's 60ft.
8
8UWITH6
Guest
You guys have any other thoughts? Speaking of tires, should he go 17" drag radial or get some slicks? What about unHOOKING the front sway bar? Im sure every little but helps........sorry John! Im tryin!
REDS HOT AIR
Buick Tweaker
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
my buddy is using hoosier q.t.p's at the track but the car will not spin them at the track swaybars still in place with kyb shocks..
on the street he runs 295/50/15 and no chance in glue of hooking it till overdrive but the car runs 11's
later....RED
on the street he runs 295/50/15 and no chance in glue of hooking it till overdrive but the car runs 11's
later....RED
REDS HOT AIR, thanks for replying. Has he done anything else to adjust his pinion angle since I know this has changed quite a bit with lowering? Does he have the Bell Tech rear coils? Mine are extremely stiff and I will be trying another manufacturer's here because I have less than 1/4" travel when pushing down on the rear of the car. Does he have the stock control arms (upper and lower) with stock bushings?
Two strikes against you.
High spring rates, and slow acting shocks.
I've never had a car running KYBs run any decent 60' times.
Lowering and road racing, take an approach 180d from what you need to go drag racing.
using some Bridgeston Potenzas, and just leaving from icle, I can run a 2.0 60'. Anything with powerbraking or boost, and I run 2.2s. All the while running 107 trap speeds, with alot of spin in 2nd (alot).
High spring rates, and slow acting shocks.
I've never had a car running KYBs run any decent 60' times.
Lowering and road racing, take an approach 180d from what you need to go drag racing.
using some Bridgeston Potenzas, and just leaving from icle, I can run a 2.0 60'. Anything with powerbraking or boost, and I run 2.2s. All the while running 107 trap speeds, with alot of spin in 2nd (alot).
REDS HOT AIR
Buick Tweaker
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
stock rear arms they are boxed with poly bushings...
i will have to ask him which brand the rear springs are but i know they were lowering springs but we cut some off of them because it didnt drop it far enough....front is 2 inch spindles with stock springs
i plan doing 2 inch spindles in mine too but i'll probly cut a set of stock springs for the rear that what i've done in my other g-body's
i have a feeling not many people on here that are after traction have their cars lowered ....when we went to the nationals i seen alot of cars that could really use some gravity looked like a 4 by 4 show
as far as traction at the track a set of hoosiers will take care of that but with 17's good luck i dont know what they offer for dr's but id say just have a set of sticky's for when you wanna play and sport the 17's when cruzing and have fun steering it with the back tires.
i will have to ask him which brand the rear springs are but i know they were lowering springs but we cut some off of them because it didnt drop it far enough....front is 2 inch spindles with stock springs
i plan doing 2 inch spindles in mine too but i'll probly cut a set of stock springs for the rear that what i've done in my other g-body's
i have a feeling not many people on here that are after traction have their cars lowered ....when we went to the nationals i seen alot of cars that could really use some gravity looked like a 4 by 4 show
as far as traction at the track a set of hoosiers will take care of that but with 17's good luck i dont know what they offer for dr's but id say just have a set of sticky's for when you wanna play and sport the 17's when cruzing and have fun steering it with the back tires.
Thanks for the ideas. I agree new springs and at least air bags with stickier tires are needed.
In addition to this do you think I am wasting my time by looking at creating a lower control arm relocating bracket similar to what lowered 4th gen F-bodies use to shift the center of gravity? I e-mailed BMR Fabrication and they don't offer them for lowered G-bodies yet. Brett thought that they would introduce them sometime in 2002. I can't wait!!!
In addition to this do you think I am wasting my time by looking at creating a lower control arm relocating bracket similar to what lowered 4th gen F-bodies use to shift the center of gravity? I e-mailed BMR Fabrication and they don't offer them for lowered G-bodies yet. Brett thought that they would introduce them sometime in 2002. I can't wait!!!
Hi John, my car came with lowering spings (approx. 1 1/2" all around) but still has stock shocks. The front shocks are very bad and don't have much dampening. My 60's are 1.61's with or w/o the front sway bar.
If you like the ride height then just get some drag shocks. Springs will of course be better for a drag suspension but they are not necessary to cut decent 60's. Slicks are the single most thing that will help.
You mentioned about changing the Instant Center (IC) by relocating the lower control arms. I would not recommend it unless you know exactly where it is at right now and where you want it when you're done. You could make it a lot worse unless you plot the suspension out.
Regards
ks
If you like the ride height then just get some drag shocks. Springs will of course be better for a drag suspension but they are not necessary to cut decent 60's. Slicks are the single most thing that will help.
You mentioned about changing the Instant Center (IC) by relocating the lower control arms. I would not recommend it unless you know exactly where it is at right now and where you want it when you're done. You could make it a lot worse unless you plot the suspension out.
Regards
ks
KEVINS, WOW! How impressive with a stock lowered suspension! Your link on suspensions gave me the idea to explore the relocated LCA's.
Part of my problem is the fact that I drive the car everyday and I'm really not interested in setting it up to be the ultimate 1/4 mile drag machine while sacraficing driveability and handling. Don't get me wrong, I want it to be the absolute fastest that it can be, however, when I'm cruisng down the freeway and some chump pulls up alongside me that needs a little lesson about performance cars, shear HP decides the race and may the best man win, it isn't based on 60' times.
My ultimate goal is to get this car into the high 11's N/A on street (non- DOT) tires and closed exhaust after I build the motor up to ~500FWHP to ensure ~118-120MPH trapspeeds. This is a real stretch, however, I came real close over 20 years ago when my 3980# LS7 Chevelle ran 12.16 @ 118 MPH thru mufflers on worn garden variety BFG 295/50x15's!
Part of my problem is the fact that I drive the car everyday and I'm really not interested in setting it up to be the ultimate 1/4 mile drag machine while sacraficing driveability and handling. Don't get me wrong, I want it to be the absolute fastest that it can be, however, when I'm cruisng down the freeway and some chump pulls up alongside me that needs a little lesson about performance cars, shear HP decides the race and may the best man win, it isn't based on 60' times.
My ultimate goal is to get this car into the high 11's N/A on street (non- DOT) tires and closed exhaust after I build the motor up to ~500FWHP to ensure ~118-120MPH trapspeeds. This is a real stretch, however, I came real close over 20 years ago when my 3980# LS7 Chevelle ran 12.16 @ 118 MPH thru mufflers on worn garden variety BFG 295/50x15's!
Something to consider:
I buddy of mine has a 87 Gn like mine except he has the 16x8 (GNX look alike wheels) with stock suspension. I have stock GN wheels (235/60's rear, 225/60 front) with lowering springs. His car will out corner mine because of the tires/wheels real easy although mine rides stiffer.
You could probably have the best of both worlds for the street if you use softer shocks on the front and keep the stiffer ones in the rear. The softer shocks on front will allow the front to come up easier with the stiffer front springs and allow some weight transfer while cruising. If you still have the stock front springs this will help a bunch.
I agree with you as far as wanting pure horse power to do the work instead of the suspension on the street. But don't kid yourself. The only way to get the car to launch hard is with slicks or design the entire front/rear suspension specifically for street tires only.
Watcha think?
ks
I buddy of mine has a 87 Gn like mine except he has the 16x8 (GNX look alike wheels) with stock suspension. I have stock GN wheels (235/60's rear, 225/60 front) with lowering springs. His car will out corner mine because of the tires/wheels real easy although mine rides stiffer.
You could probably have the best of both worlds for the street if you use softer shocks on the front and keep the stiffer ones in the rear. The softer shocks on front will allow the front to come up easier with the stiffer front springs and allow some weight transfer while cruising. If you still have the stock front springs this will help a bunch.
I agree with you as far as wanting pure horse power to do the work instead of the suspension on the street. But don't kid yourself. The only way to get the car to launch hard is with slicks or design the entire front/rear suspension specifically for street tires only.
Watcha think?
ks
Good points again KEVINS. I am resigned to the fact that I will never get my car to "launch hard" because I don't want to run slicks on it. Acutally I'd be content with just high 1.9x's or 2.0's for 60' times based on my current P275/40ZRx17 tires and some suspension work (if it would help with street tires).
I guess that I will try air bags (not sure what they do for a lowered car, maybe you could explain more here), lighter duty shocks up front and probably disconnect the front sway bar for track use. Would a rear pinnion snubber help? My stock one seems to bottom already based on the shiney spots. Thanks again for taking the time to reply.
I guess that I will try air bags (not sure what they do for a lowered car, maybe you could explain more here), lighter duty shocks up front and probably disconnect the front sway bar for track use. Would a rear pinnion snubber help? My stock one seems to bottom already based on the shiney spots. Thanks again for taking the time to reply.
The bad thing about air bags is that when inflated they raise the rear of the car. This changes the weight distribution a bit by adding more weight to the front of the car. Not a lot, but when you are walking a fine line between traction and slipping then it can make a huge difference. When the rear of the car is higher then you can lose that Initial bite that you need to get the rest of the suspension working for you. The benefits of the air bags are that they can help even the load on the rear tires by preventing the right rear tire from trying to lift off the ground.
So, given what I have explained above are the air bags beneficial? I would say YES depending on applications, launching technique, horsepower, etc. An example would be my 5.0 Mustang: It launched much better (.06-.08 average) with NO air in the air bags even though it was twisted bad on the launches.
Left front tire 18” of the ground and the right front 6” off the ground. But it also had slicks.
If you have lowering/stiffer springs already on the back then you may not need the air bags because the springs are already making the car stiffer. Same goes with a larger sway bar on the rear.
In a nutshell, they are not a waste of money.
KS
Forgot to mention: Yes, get a good pinion snubber. People were always surprised to learn that my Stang mentioned above used factory control arms and bushings (relocated uppers) and a pinion snubber with 3/4" of bump travel that produced 1.47 60's. No "traction bars" of any kind- I don't like them.
So, given what I have explained above are the air bags beneficial? I would say YES depending on applications, launching technique, horsepower, etc. An example would be my 5.0 Mustang: It launched much better (.06-.08 average) with NO air in the air bags even though it was twisted bad on the launches.
Left front tire 18” of the ground and the right front 6” off the ground. But it also had slicks.
If you have lowering/stiffer springs already on the back then you may not need the air bags because the springs are already making the car stiffer. Same goes with a larger sway bar on the rear.
In a nutshell, they are not a waste of money.
KS
Forgot to mention: Yes, get a good pinion snubber.
People were always surprised to learn that my Stang mentioned above used factory control arms and bushings (relocated uppers) and a pinion snubber with 3/4" of bump travel that produced 1.47 60's. No "traction bars" of any kind- I don't like them.
1
1BADTURBOT
Guest
Hey REDS HOT AIR! Just wondering how you cut 2" out of the rear springs of a G body? I would like to lower my T 2" but see no way of cutting the rearspring since it is smaller on both ends than in the middle. How would it "seat" with either end if cut? I've had my spring out a few times and really see no way to cut them. Am I missing something here? Thanks, Randall
REDS HOT AIR
Buick Tweaker
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
the top of the spring can be cut and it will sit up in the pocket on the frame if you look up there youll see what i meen ..
good suggestion is to use the varible rate springs where the coils are closer together at one end so after you cut it the top coil will be at less angle and it will sit pretty good without moving around.
them you can slide a piece of hose around the top coil for an isulater to keep them quiet..
i have cut springs down in plenty of g-bodys and dont have no trouble with them other than the problem of any shorter than stock spring in that if you jack it up by the body and not the rear then they will be loose before the shock travel runs out .
if i confused you on any of that let ne know...
good suggestion is to use the varible rate springs where the coils are closer together at one end so after you cut it the top coil will be at less angle and it will sit pretty good without moving around.
them you can slide a piece of hose around the top coil for an isulater to keep them quiet..
i have cut springs down in plenty of g-bodys and dont have no trouble with them other than the problem of any shorter than stock spring in that if you jack it up by the body and not the rear then they will be loose before the shock travel runs out .
if i confused you on any of that let ne know...
REDS HOT AIR, as for the problem with the stock springs falling out when trimmed shorter you can do what I did, take the rear shocks out and cut 2" off of the top and carefully re-weld the tops back on and problem fixed.
I'm wondering if I have F-body rear rubber isolators in my car. My rear coils are narrow at the bottom, wide at the top since they are cut (I took the Bell-Techs out last week). They seat right into the rubber isolators at the top perfectly and there is a small rubber isolator inside of this. Does this make sense?
I'm wondering if I have F-body rear rubber isolators in my car. My rear coils are narrow at the bottom, wide at the top since they are cut (I took the Bell-Techs out last week). They seat right into the rubber isolators at the top perfectly and there is a small rubber isolator inside of this. Does this make sense?
REDS HOT AIR
Buick Tweaker
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
could be not sure which car carry's the isolater that will fit with cut spring i just take a piece of hose that fit over the spring wire and run in most of one loop and use weatherstrip ahesive to keep the hose on the spring
My car was the same as yours after i lowered it and all my friends thought i was crazy to go through all the crap just to make it look good and not hook.(2.0 60ft 125 mph)
I used the 2" Bell tec spindle and the shortend rear springs also.
I had to cut a extra 1/2 turn off the rears to level the car.
I had to fix the instant center problem i had from lowering the car. After i fixed that and put a wolf bar in i went 1.36 60ft
Now my friends dont give me crap about it and one of them has lowered his car!!!!
I used the 2" Bell tec spindle and the shortend rear springs also.
I had to cut a extra 1/2 turn off the rears to level the car.
I had to fix the instant center problem i had from lowering the car. After i fixed that and put a wolf bar in i went 1.36 60ft
Now my friends dont give me crap about it and one of them has lowered his car!!!!
