Switching from non lockup to lockup

[clemsgn]

I want to put in a lockup converter, but it is non lock now. I've searched on this, but still have questions.

How can you tell if the lockup valve in the pump is a non lock style ? Anyone have side by side pics of them ? Will a non lock converter work if this valve wasn't changed from the lockup type and vice versa?

Someone also mentioned about a spring that may be on one end of the valve....swapped from the opposite end? Is this only one valve type, or all of them ?

Also, the check ball in the end of the input shaft...some say leave it out to hit harder upon lockup, but I'll lock it up for mileage only (single disc Precision) so softer lockup would be prefered. Where can I get this ball etc. other than the boneyard ? What about the O-ring on the input shaft...does a lockup need this...not sure if it's there now ?

Basically, I don't know what was done to this trans, and I want to make it right when I install my lockup.
Help anyone ? ?

Thanks, Clem

 

[DonnieShort]

TTT

Is there anybody here answering questions??

 

[WE4]

Originally posted by clemsgn
I want to put in a lockup converter, but it is non lock now. I've searched on this, but still have questions.

How can you tell if the lockup valve in the pump is a non lock style ? Anyone have side by side pics of them ? Will a non lock converter work if this valve wasn't changed from the lockup type and vice versa?

Someone also mentioned about a spring that may be on one end of the valve....swapped from the opposite end? Is this only one valve type, or all of them ?

Also, the check ball in the end of the input shaft...some say leave it out to hit harder upon lockup, but I'll lock it up for mileage only (single disc Precision) so softer lockup would be prefered. Where can I get this ball etc. other than the boneyard ? What about the O-ring on the input shaft...does a lockup need this...not sure if it's there now ?

Basically, I don't know what was done to this trans, and I want to make it right when I install my lockup.
Help anyone ? ?

Thanks, Clem

#1 is the valve in the pump is changed when going to non lock up. Now the question is , Did they use an Art Carr style valve that is held in place with a set screw and hole plugged in pump, (Which means trans pump has to come out) or did they use a Transgo which can be done in the car with no set screw holding it in?
Next you will need a new lock up valve and springs that go behind it. Also, some the clip fit in and some don't so you may need a spacer washer with hole and a snap ring too but unlikely.


#2 you will need the original TCC harness and a new TCC solenoid with bolts.( Unless you saved the old one from before)

#3 The ck ball in shaft is not that big of a deal, but we leave them out. If you want to put it back in I have the part number and part at work. They are available. I say leave it out.

4# the oring is a MUST!!!!! Both on the INPUT SHAFT and the TCC solenoid.It HAS GOT TO BE ON THERE. If somebody cut the pilot of the input shaft off, which only a few do, you may need an input shaft too.
There you go, all Lock up TCC in a nutshell.

I hope I hit on all your questions and points. If need be call shop for a more thorough explanation.

Bruce
WE4
www.PTSXTREME.com

 

[clemsgn]

Re: Re: Switching from non lockup to lockup

Originally posted by WE4
#1 is the valve in the pump is changed when going to non lock up. Now the question is , Did they use an Art Carr style valve that is held in place with a set screw and hole plugged in pump, (Which means trans pump has to come out) or did they use a Transgo which can be done in the car with no set screw holding it in?
Next you will need a new lock up valve and springs that go behind it. Also, some the clip fit in and some don't so you may need a spacer washer with hole and a snap ring too but unlikely.

First of all, how are you feeling Bruce ? I hope all went well with the operation....you must be doing reasonably well, cause you were kind enough to take the time to reply....Thanks !


You mention the Art Carr valve with a set screw and hole plugged...if so does the plug need to be removed also ?
I will check it out when I can, but does it matter what's in there now, or do I just need to put in a lock up valve and springs ?
Is the lockup valve in the cavity above where the solenoid goes, or ?
Could you elaborate on the clip....spacer washer....snap ring ?
I've got to look at my shop manuals to see where all this stuff is located.
As far as the solenoid & harness.....I'm not sure what's inside, but I have another GN that I can swap parts from anyway. I may steal the lockup parts from this one too.
What's the reason for the input shaft checkball, anyhow?
On another note, what do you suggest for a converter if I want to lock it up in a high 10 sec car? I have a 3500 stall "O" pump single disc Precision now, but don't want the "rattle" with the multi disc unit. Are you for or against "lockup" in a 10 sec car ? What stall would you suggest......I have a 68mm turbo (63 Precision turbine housing) and a 212/206 roller cam in a 3600 lb. TR

Thanks again and get well

 

[WE4]

Re: Re: Re: Switching from non lockup to lockup

Originally posted by clemsgn
First of all, how are you feeling Bruce ? I hope all went well with the operation....you must be doing reasonably well, cause you were kind enough to take the time to reply....Thanks !
" BTW Thanks for the concern on my health. Slow recovery but coming along. 6 months to go.

You mention the Art Carr valve with a set screw and hole plugged...if so does the plug need to be removed also ?

"Yes" (BT)

I will check it out when I can, but does it matter what's in there now, or do I just need to put in a lock up valve and springs ?

"All must be in there complete to work correctly with the exception of the ck ball in the shaft" (BT)

Is the lockup valve in the cavity above where the solenoid goes, or ?
"Yes" (BT)

Could you elaborate on the clip....spacer washer....snap ring ?
I've got to look at my shop manuals to see where all this stuff is located.

It will be shown in your manual" (BT) best for you to look at it.

As far as the solenoid & harness.....I'm not sure what's inside, but I have another GN that I can swap parts from anyway. I may steal the lockup parts from this one too.
What's the reason for the input shaft checkball, anyhow?

Slow down apply of lock up (BT)

On another note, what do you suggest for a converter if I want to lock it up in a high 10 sec car? I have a 3500 stall "O" pump single disc Precision now, but don't want the "rattle" with the multi disc unit. Are you for or against "lockup" in a 10 sec car ? What stall would you suggest......I have a 68mm turbo (63 Precision turbine housing) and a 212/206 roller cam in a 3600 lb. TR

I have no problem lovking a 10 sec car converter. We use the 9x11 billet with the carbon fibre clutch. Seems to work well but there are so many opinions on this subject, I just told you what we do, not that everyone will feel it is right. All seem to have an opinion on this. But the guys running our stuff are happy. Don't get me wrong, there will always be one in the bunch but that is what we do.
You are welcome and thanks for the health concern.(BT)
Bruce
WE4
www.PTSXTREME.com

Thanks again and get well

 

[clemsgn]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Switching from non lockup to lockup

Originally posted by WE4
I have no problem locking a 10 sec car converter. We use the 9x11 billet with the carbon fibre clutch. Seems to work well but there are so many opinions on this subject, I just told you what we do, not that everyone will feel it is right. All seem to have an opinion on this. But the guys running our stuff are happy. Don't get me wrong, there will always be one in the bunch but that is what we do.

I should have also asked... What stall would you suggest with my buildup.....I also have 3.73 gears and use 28" M/T's at the track, but it will see a fair amount of street driving as well. Is 3500 stall enough with this setup ? The 68mm turbo is considered to be a "stealth 70" from what I've been told. I have a 3500 Art Carr N/L in now, but want to go lockup for mileage and better ET/MPH . If you don't think I'll gain much at the track with a lockup, I may just put in my 3500 stall Precision single disc to gain mileage anyway ? I used to run a stock 12" lockup in my other car (GN), and I used to get 2-3 MPH and a bit of ET, (locking in 2nd) but this was on a mid 11 sec car. This new car is a bit faster (hopefully mid 10's after tuning) and I don't know if it will respond the same.
Bruce, what do you think ?
If I go this route, do you stock many 9x11's in different stall speeds ?
Sorry to ramble on, but I would rather ask questions now instead of buying twice.

Thank you again

 

[Russ Merritt]

I had GREAT luck with his billet 3500 stall 9/11 in BG. Picked up 3-4 mph lockin it at the end of 3rd gear.... Sell that PI Clem and get one of these........

 

[clemsgn]

Originally posted by Russ Merritt
I had GREAT luck with his billet 3500 stall 9/11 in BG. Picked up 3-4 mph lockin it at the end of 3rd gear.... Sell that PI Clem and get one of these........

Thanks for the input Russ. Did you bring the street or race car to BG ? What did it run ? Do you have any pics?

Thanks

 

[WE4]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Switching from non lockup to lockup

Originally posted by clemsgn
I should have also asked... What stall would you suggest with my buildup.....I also have 3.73 gears and use 28" M/T's at the track, but it will see a fair amount of street driving as well. Is 3500 stall enough with this setup ? The 68mm turbo is considered to be a "stealth 70" from what I've been told. I have a 3500 Art Carr N/L in now, but want to go lockup for mileage and better ET/MPH . If you don't think I'll gain much at the track with a lockup, I may just put in my 3500 stall Precision single disc to gain mileage anyway ? I used to run a stock 12" lockup in my other car (GN), and I used to get 2-3 MPH and a bit of ET, (locking in 2nd) but this was on a mid 11 sec car. This new car is a bit faster (hopefully mid 10's after tuning) and I don't know if it will respond the same.
Bruce, what do you think ?
If I go this route, do you stock many 9x11's in different stall speeds ?
Sorry to ramble on, but I would rather ask questions now instead of buying twice.

Thank you again

First of all we build EVERY converter to YOUR car and specs you provide us. I stock NOTHING 9x11 . All I do stock is our d-5 line. Every 9x11 from us is custom built to your car. That is why it takes us a little longer to get the product to you. But in the long run I have found this to be the only way to come as close as possible to desired useage and performance. Put the same converter behind 5 different motors all with the same combo and you will get 5 different stall speeds. Convertering a turbo car is alot harder then naturally asperated cars. And, with our cars there are so many other variables. I used to be able to change stall in Dad's car at the line with the fuel program instead of boost. A Slight ignition miss could kill 500 rpm. They are just harder than most. Anyway, I would like to see a complete spec sheet on this car before recommending anything. You can fill one out off the PTSXTREME site or just email me a copy of everything on that sheet. I will reveiw it and PTS will get back to you if not me myself. I will say that 3500 sounds a little high to me but I am known to be on the conservative side. Let me know.

Bruce
WE4
www.PTSXTREME.com

 

[WE4]

This should help also.

Ck it out. here is your order of install

Bruce
WE4

 

[Russ Merritt]

Had 3500 stamped on it, not sure if it got that high though. No tach in the car, which is just the way I like it. Don't want or care to know. I know the motor pulls to 7200.......... Got 2 converters at the same time, one for me and one for another guy, similar set up. His was a 3200 (stamped on it)


Clem, the street car ended up runnin a best of 10.34 @ 132. Same car I brought to the dyno day last year. Still waiting on a turbo for the race car................Been tryin to get one since last November............ This year has been the worst for me tryin to get a turbo..... The race car is done, just need that one last part..... Someday soon I hope!

 

[clemsgn]

Bruce,
Thanks for the info. I never got a chance to look at my manuals, but you beat me to it. Boy, there's a lot of things in there !

I'll let you know about that converter once I figure out what I'm going to do.

Thanks again