New guy here and I just wanted to get some opinoins on what you guys think about the TE44 -vs- stock. My car is pretty much stock and Im looking at doing the 60 lb Motrons, chip and open up the exhuast. Now how far could I go on the Stock turbo (HP and track E.T.) assuming I do upgraded I/C, downpipe, and full bolt ons? Just trying to see when I should look at upgrading turbos since I hear good things about the TE44, I think thats the turbo Ill go with first! Plus where is the cheapiest place to get the TE44 turbo? Thanks fellas!!!!!
TE44 -vs- Stock
- Thread starter my1stgn
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Here's my opinion.....
1.) Get a scantool first. If it is a daily driver, get the scanmaster.... if it is a track car mostly... and you have a cheap laptop... get the direct scan. Anybody even remotely serious about performance in one of these cars needs to have a scantool.
2.) The stock turbo, stock unopened longblock..... has capabilities (with an alky kit and other complementing bolt ons) to go deep into the 11's. Ed Brewer has gone 11.3x's on his stock turbo/stock longblock car...... but it took alot of tuning... and lots of track passes......He was running a non-stretched dutt necked stock intercooler too.
I am in a similar boat as you... mostly stock stuff.... with some bolt ons....and alky... and I am really impressed by how these cars respond to little stuff. I don't want to swap a turbo til I am going mid-high 11's.
I hope this is of some help... and provides (at least an opinion) of the direction to go.....
1.) Get a scantool first. If it is a daily driver, get the scanmaster.... if it is a track car mostly... and you have a cheap laptop... get the direct scan. Anybody even remotely serious about performance in one of these cars needs to have a scantool.
2.) The stock turbo, stock unopened longblock..... has capabilities (with an alky kit and other complementing bolt ons) to go deep into the 11's. Ed Brewer has gone 11.3x's on his stock turbo/stock longblock car...... but it took alot of tuning... and lots of track passes......He was running a non-stretched dutt necked stock intercooler too.
I am in a similar boat as you... mostly stock stuff.... with some bolt ons....and alky... and I am really impressed by how these cars respond to little stuff. I don't want to swap a turbo til I am going mid-high 11's.
I hope this is of some help... and provides (at least an opinion) of the direction to go.....
Just to let you know that the TE44 has the same exhaust wheel as the new GT6131e turbo but it has a bigger compressor wheel. So the spool up will be the same with these 2 turbos. You might have some spool up problems with these turbos with a stock D5.
TE44 is a awsome turbo but for the same amount of money for these 2 turbos I would go with the 6131e because of the bigger compressor wheel means much more horsepower.
Price? All the vendors will be about the same price and I would say around $800-850. Both these turbos are built by PTE or limit.
TE44 is a awsome turbo but for the same amount of money for these 2 turbos I would go with the 6131e because of the bigger compressor wheel means much more horsepower.
Price? All the vendors will be about the same price and I would say around $800-850. Both these turbos are built by PTE or limit.
A couple of weeks ago I put a stocker back on and ran 12.3@108mph with 25lbs boost on alky my first time out. I think I could have gotten it down to 12.0 or so with more runs but the turbo broke. After that I put a friends TE44 on and ran 11.6@113 first time out with 25lbs boost, making very little changes except adding in a little fuel.
To get into the low 12s (much less high 11s) on a stock turbo takes a very good launch and a good tune. With a bigger turbo such as a TA49 or TE44 its much easier to run low 12s or high 11s. With more boost and tune I think I could get the TE44 into the 11.3-11.4 range. I also have a GT6152 turbo which I have ran 11.4 on. With a higher flowing intercooler and better converter I think I can run low 11s on the GT turbo.
While I do have a good trans and suspension setup, my engine is basically stock except for new valve springs. Still running a stock intercooler with a dutt neck.
To get into the low 12s (much less high 11s) on a stock turbo takes a very good launch and a good tune. With a bigger turbo such as a TA49 or TE44 its much easier to run low 12s or high 11s. With more boost and tune I think I could get the TE44 into the 11.3-11.4 range. I also have a GT6152 turbo which I have ran 11.4 on. With a higher flowing intercooler and better converter I think I can run low 11s on the GT turbo.
While I do have a good trans and suspension setup, my engine is basically stock except for new valve springs. Still running a stock intercooler with a dutt neck.
I just added a TE44 to my car....stock converter. Spoolup is a little slow, but the power is there....feels fast at just 5 lbs. I was expecting it to be alot louder than my stock turbo though....its actually a little quiter. How loud are your guys' ?
Well taking all your guys opinoins into consideration I think I might do the exhuast, chip w/ 60lb injector and some tuning before I start looking into any turbo upgrade but Ill definetly try to stay informed as to which turbos work good with which combos. I do have a laptop I use to tune my GTP so I think I might go with Direct Scan since Ive heard good things about it before. Also is there any scanners that can tune/write too? Ive heard about the FAST system and I think if I heard right that there is other systems that write/log/scan. Any ideas?.....maybe I should post this in an other section? Thanks!
K.I.S.S. Keep it simple stupid..... should be applicable here for starting out. You will find if you read enough......people that have $2000 in mods going faster than some with 3x that much in mods.... you have to tune it. Beyond a shadow of a doubt... the stock turbo on a stock engine with either race gas or alky+pump gas should be capable of 11's..... and you have saved on some big ticket items like ported heads/cam/turbo/front mount... ect.... You will also learn a helluva lot in the process that will only make your car that much faster when you do get around to those big ticket mods. By the time you get into the 11's... I am sure you will run across several other turbo buicks (and mustangs... and vettes and vipers.....) with some of these bigger ticket items.... and you will likely be as fast or faster..... that to me is waaaaaayyyy cool.
Well I noticed that you keep mentioning tuning but how do you guys do this? Do you use the MAF Translator Plus or is there some type of program that you could use to re-write the chip? Ive also heard of chips giving you some type or adjsutment for spark and fuel. Any info on these? Thanks again guys!!! :biggrin:
Look no further.....
http://www.turbotweak.com
He makes some bad @ss chips
You can (gotta have a scan tool) adjust WOT fuel and WOT timing (1st and 2nd), and WOT timing (3rd and 4th)
You won't regret getting a chip from Eric.
http://www.turbotweak.com
He makes some bad @ss chips
You can (gotta have a scan tool) adjust WOT fuel and WOT timing (1st and 2nd), and WOT timing (3rd and 4th)
You won't regret getting a chip from Eric.
I got mine from Conely's PP, but there are other good vendors here as well. I have bought a pile of stuff from Mike at Fullthrottle. He rocks! He will bend over backwards to help to. I believe the going rate is around $250 ..... you might find a used one in the for sale section..... but they typically still go for at least $200 used.... not alot of difference.
$250 is not bad at all, and since its a "scanner" I could do a tax right of! But Im assuming it only scans and maybe logs? But you cant use it to make adjustments alonr right? I have a PowrTuner for my GP so Im used to re-writing the pcm thorugh a laptop 
..........
..........I use Directscan logging, EGT readings, and track data to help dial in the chip settings. Erics chips are adjustable and along with his help it should be the most people need until you get deep into the 10s. Alternatives would be variations of the MAF translator, an extender chip combined with a translator, or the MaxEffort chips, and maybe others I am missing. All of these give you basic adjustable features without having to go to a full engine management system and many have gone single digits on these systems. But before you adjust any settings on the various chips, you need good data logging such as Directscan, wideband, track data, etc so you know what the car is doing.
As you get more involved, you will see that basic chips lock in the MAF readings at WOT and you adjust fuel to make the car richer or leaner. With a MAF translator and extender chips the MAF readings are no longer locked in. And now there are wideband O2 controlled setups for the stock computer coming out so all you need to do is set your AF ratio (just like the more expensive management systems).
Myself, I have been happy with Erics chips as he gets it pretty close on his chip setups. If you have data logs he can reburn a chip for you so that it will be dead on and then you can still adjust fuel and timing for different boost, octane, and weather combinations.
As you get more involved, you will see that basic chips lock in the MAF readings at WOT and you adjust fuel to make the car richer or leaner. With a MAF translator and extender chips the MAF readings are no longer locked in. And now there are wideband O2 controlled setups for the stock computer coming out so all you need to do is set your AF ratio (just like the more expensive management systems).
Myself, I have been happy with Erics chips as he gets it pretty close on his chip setups. If you have data logs he can reburn a chip for you so that it will be dead on and then you can still adjust fuel and timing for different boost, octane, and weather combinations.
I would say if you haven't been to the track yet stay with the stock tubo and learn how to tune(not blow the thing up) Push the stock turbo to the max(around 23lbs) and get it to run 12.0-12.4
Keep it simple and work your way up to see how different parts affect performance.
Go buy a used TE44(around $500) and get it to run 11.5-12.0
Then decide if you want to start spending the big bucks to go faster.
You can basically tune by O2 readings but an EGT is more accurate, of course keeping knock as close to 0 as possible. You won't achive any of these times without good tires and a good launch.
If your alone try and hook up with another buick racer at the track and ask ?'s , Most are eager to help other TR owners.
BTW nice numbers on the GTP, you will find it much easier with the GN
Keep it simple and work your way up to see how different parts affect performance.
Go buy a used TE44(around $500) and get it to run 11.5-12.0
Then decide if you want to start spending the big bucks to go faster.
You can basically tune by O2 readings but an EGT is more accurate, of course keeping knock as close to 0 as possible. You won't achive any of these times without good tires and a good launch.
If your alone try and hook up with another buick racer at the track and ask ?'s , Most are eager to help other TR owners.
BTW nice numbers on the GTP, you will find it much easier with the GN
I agree with Charged. Do not upgrade the turbo until you running 12.50s or faster. To take advantage of a 44 over stock, you need to run 22lbs+ of boost. If you are running 20 or less with the stocker, it is probably not worth the change.
Awesome advice guys! And thanks on the compliments for the GTP! That car runs like a champ but in order to run 11's and faster I knew I had to get a different car (not to mention trying to keep it a daily driver) I think all that advice makes perfect sense and I cant wait to start modding. I already have a few G's saved up so I think I know what mey next mods will be! Thanks again fellas! :biggrin:
