Thinkin' of alky.....

[incubus2432]

My car has relatively low miles and I have no plans to run it to the ragged edge. My mods are listed in my signature....my goal was just to make it reliable and open it up a tad so I've only done basic fuel and air in/out upgrades. I've been running it at 17lbs. of boost with zero knock issues until recently (1.5 KR was the worst I've seen). It may be the cooler weather or winter gas (or questionable octane from my normal 94 octane station).

Anyway I am thinking of getting Razor's alky kit primarily as a means to ensure I have sufficient octane always....not so much to run more boost. Don't get me wrong, I may tune it for a steady 20psi but I'd rather not run it right to the edge. I know I can turn the boost down to 15psi on my normal gas and have no issues but the few extra psi really makes a difference. I'm relatively new to these cars and most of my experience is late 60's Fords (N/A obviously) so please excuse lack of turbo knowledge.:redface: So knowing that I'm not looking to run crazy boost but want to have a little extra power would I be better off with....

1. Running alky with my stock turbo (or minor upgrade turbo when money allows) at slightly higher boost.
2. Getting a larger turbo and running it at 15-17 psi (no alky).
3. Cam, light port job on heads with stock turbo at 15-17psi (no alky).
4. ??????

I know from reading countless threads and recipes what direction I'd have to go to get the most from it but I'm really only looking for low/mid-12's performance. My best run before the downpipe with horrendous traction was 13.5 at 103MPH.

 

[Razor]

Larger turbo spools slower.. and still limted to same boost=same performance

Head and cam mean major surgery.. I wouldnt do.. its opening pandoras box.

To run injection with the stock turbo.. easiest means to get way higher power without complication.. except adding alcohol to a tank. And you should consider a matching chip to compliment the injection kit.

HTH

 

[incubus2432]

Doesn't a larger turbo at the same boost flow more CFM? Same pressure but more volume? Considering adequate support mods I would think it would provide more power. The slower spool is an obvious negative though. Like I said, I'm new......

The head and cam thing is just me going back to what I know and am comfortable with. I'm not sure if the benefits on this motor are worth the effort or if it is something that is done only when you want to milk the last bit of power out of it.

I factored the chip in as part of getting the alky kit up and running. I've actually researched it quite a bit but just had the few lingering issues to sort through that I asked about so I can head in the right direction.

I think I have actually located a local methanol source which was one of my previous hold-ups (I'll add it to your list if it comes through).

Thanks for the quick response!

 

[PhilM]

Doesn't a larger turbo at the same boost flow more CFM? Same pressure but more volume? Considering adequate support mods I would think it would provide more power. The slower spool is an obvious negative though. Like I said, I'm new......

As a person who daily drives a Buick with a GT42 on a 109 setup (yes there are some serious flow restrictions!) I would highly advise against a "BIG" turbo unless you have the system to support it, i.e. cam, heads, intake, intake plumbing, decent IC, high stall converter, etc... You state the obvious about big turbo = more flow... but try 'breathing' it through stock parts and you will see performance losses.

From a driveability standpoint, the larger you go, the slower the spool - this is not a good thing for a streetcar. By the time it reaches 15lbs, your already going way to fast for any 'regulated' roads I am aware of and the initial wait is, well... kind of weird. Pre-spooling the car via transbrake is another story!

But you are far from what I would consider too big a turbo for the street... coming from a stock turbo, a nice 44 does wonders all the way into the 10's and retains awesome streetability. Just make sure you treat the engine as a system - you couldn't just stick a bigger turbo on there without doing other major changes. If your shooting for low 12's I think I would see where the stocker takes you - alky will allow you to expoit it all the way to the turbo's limits.

Phil

 

[87NAT]

I have owned 3 TR's since 1993 and I can say without a doubt that running high boost is the ticket to fast times. Two ways to do this: race gas or alky. I have spent plenty of $$$ over the years on the "LATEST" mods and I found out that sometimes keeping it simple is the best solution. What I am saying is that once the basics are done(fuel pump, regulator, free flowing exhaust system and 160 thermostat) you can stop right there and put alky and your done.(if thats what u want & satisfied with--quick & easy) Even with limited experience on these cars the alky kit will be your insurance against blowing a headgasket. Razors kit is very well designed and he is always there to answer your questions by phone or on the board.

You wont run low 11's on that setup but you will be way ahead of the game compared to where I was 10-12 years ago and with alot more cash in your wallet. Hell, you will be suprised at what your setup does at the track with just the alky kit. I have learned that with all of my mods on my cars without high boost it is for nothing. I have been running race gas lately to achieve this but it has gotten way to expensive and a pain in the a**! I just installed Razors kit and it is by far the best investment I have spent on my regals over the years. It basically takes your setup and puts it on steroids.

Spend your money on an alky kit and call it a day. Oh yeah, dont forget to call Eric at Turbotweak.com and get a chip for alky. Hes the man!

 

[Razor]

Doesn't a larger turbo at the same boost flow more CFM? Same pressure but more volume? Considering adequate support mods I would think it would provide more power. The slower spool is an obvious negative though. Like I said, I'm new......


Thanks for the quick response!

No probs. Yes on cfm.. but what good is cfm when you cant use it. That is like installing a 101MM turbo.

The stock turbo has been taken into the 11's on these cars by many. I have a customer ran 11.3 on 92 octane and alky.. stock turbo. Was it easy, no. But nothing is when your at the very edge of your tuneup.

If it isnt blowing oil out of the seals.. leave the turbo alone.. until your ready to do converter and turbo.. and tranny is in excellent shape. Another small success turbo is the GT3255. You can search that one as well. Ditto on the 44.. but you get into converter issues.

Leaving the car as is, it will be quicker with the stock turbo at the same boost level. And wallet will be fatter

 

[Welby]

I upgraded my stock turbo to a TA-49 and have probably gained nothing, because I'm still at 17lbs on 93 octane. I thought it would make a bigger difference when I bought it, but that's just my inexperience showing. I'm sure it was a worthwhile upgrade once I start turning up the wick, but at stockish boost levels, skip the turbo.
If I could rewind about 10 months, I would have kept the stock turbo, spent about the same amount on the alky kit and be further ahead and alot faster . Oh well, next spring it'll happen

BTW: I made my first ever trip to a strip last weekend, and the best I could do in 3 runs was a 13.63 @ 100.53, also with poor traction, so there you go...

 

[incubus2432]

My methanol source may not come through. I might just opt for easy to obtain denatured alcohol. Are there any drawbacks besides cost? Any side effects? I have read that methanol is corrosive to aluminum but haven't seen that reference for denatured alcohol. I imagine this is something I would have read about if it is an issue for our TR's but........is it? Is meth only prefered since it is cheaper or does it have greater cooling/octane benefits?

The ease of obtaining the denatured alcohol vs. the apparent PITA to get methanol makes it seem like a no brainer. Plus I can drop my pump gas octane which would probably offset the costs for meth or denatured alcohol anyway.

Thanks for the opinions and info BTW!

 

[Roc87]

Razor replied in one of the other posts that denatured isn't as good as methanol if you're right on the edge pushing very high boost. Running 22# on a stock turbo is amazing, the spool of the stocker and still attaining that boost, there's just nothing like it. As others have said, why go to a much larger turbo when everything else is stock? Right now I have way too much turbo for stock heads/cam/headers, but at 153k miles I'm not going to put on a fresh set of heads just to blow the bottom end. I still do not realize why some areas are just a PITA to obtain methanol. A sticky at the top of this forum has 4 pages of sources, yet I can't find any this time of year local without buying 55 gallons of it.

Razor, any info on what the altitude/DA was for that 11.3 on alky? I would love to take my GN to a well prepped track at a DA lower than 7k feet.

 

[Pronto]

First off Inc, what's your goal for performance? With a similar set up to you I ran 12.5s with a TT100 octain chip (blue tops/stock turbo). I added alky and ran the same with 93. This was at 22lbs of boost. I got a TT alky chip when I upgraded my injectors and turbo. I'd follow Grumpy's rule-KISS. Alky, TT chip to match, good drag radials, fresh tune and a shift kit should get you easy mid 12s.

 

[Grumpy]

well you have a 18k car .. I wouldn't go crazy like other's have said in here .. I'd keep the stock turbo and add the Alky and call it a day ... the fuel pump , hot wire, fuel reg , and a scan tool should already be there good luck :biggrin:

 

[QUIP'6']

I upgraded my stock turbo to a TA-49 and have probably gained nothing, because I'm still at 17lbs on 93 octane. I thought it would make a bigger difference when I bought it, but that's just my inexperience showing. I'm sure it was a worthwhile upgrade once I start turning up the wick, but at stockish boost levels, skip the turbo.
If I could rewind about 10 months, I would have kept the stock turbo, spent about the same amount on the alky kit and be further ahead and alot faster . Oh well, next spring it'll happen

BTW: I made my first ever trip to a strip last weekend, and the best I could do in 3 runs was a 13.63 @ 100.53, also with poor traction, so there you go...

if you install alky it that ta-49 will come alive over that stocker at 25 to 26 psi thay are a bear

 

[Razor]

Razor replied in one of the other posts that denatured isn't as good as methanol if you're right on the edge pushing very high boost. Running 22# on a stock turbo is amazing, the spool of the stocker and still attaining that boost, there's just nothing like it. As others have said, why go to a much larger turbo when everything else is stock? Right now I have way too much turbo for stock heads/cam/headers, but at 153k miles I'm not going to put on a fresh set of heads just to blow the bottom end. I still do not realize why some areas are just a PITA to obtain methanol. A sticky at the top of this forum has 4 pages of sources, yet I can't find any this time of year local without buying 55 gallons of it.

Razor, any info on what the altitude/DA was for that 11.3 on alky? I would love to take my GN to a well prepped track at a DA lower than 7k feet.

I know the temp was like 52 degree's, 5 o'clock in the afternoon. Kansas City.. I think the track is MIR???

There are industrial suppliers that will sell in 5 gallon cans.. since methanol is a solvent.

Sorry.. the stuff is like buying beer when you were in high school

 

[incubus2432]

What's the real world comparison for meth vs. denatured alcohol? Is it that maybe you could run 22psi on meth but only 20 on alcohol? Or is more/less severe of a difference? Just curious.......I haven't given up on the meth yet but am curious as to whether if I am running denatured alcohol if it is as worth it. I have to plan for Spring and time is running out! :biggrin:

 

[Razor]

Guys have run 27+ PSI on denatured.

What ever you choose.. stick to it. And tune it out. You can run WW fluid and probably get away with 22-23 PSI boost.. wont make as much power.. but will boost to 23 PSI and not knock.

And denatured stinks when it burns. :redface:

 

[incubus2432]

Guys have run 27+ PSI on denatured.

And denatured stinks when it burns. :redface:

Excellent news.....an alky kit is in my future then! Thanks for the info.

By "stinks when it burns" I hope you mean that it smells like some sort of burning chemical rather than it smelling like a homeless man's inner thigh.

 

[Roc87]

I never really thought of Denatured as "stinks", but whoever is losing will know you're running something out of the ordinary......I kindof liked that smell

 

[Roc87]

I know the temp was like 52 degree's, 5 o'clock in the afternoon. Kansas City.. I think the track is MIR???

There are industrial suppliers that will sell in 5 gallon cans.. since methanol is a solvent.

Sorry.. the stuff is like buying beer when you were in high school

Methanol and boost are just more addictive

 

[Pronto]

You can get Methenol at the track. There must be one near you. A 5 gal can would last a while on a stocker @23lbs.
Norwalk Now Offers Lowest Fuel Prices in the State — Norwalk Raceway Park Meth=$2 a gal.

 

[incubus2432]

Norwalk isn't too far away (an hour-ish) but it might be a hassle with my work schedule if I'm running low. Basically I'm lazy and would rather pay more but be able to get it easily at the Home Depot around the corner that's open just about whenever I need it. I still have a few leads on getting methanol that I have to look into but it's nice to know that the denatured alcohol is a viable option if the meth falls through. I've found a few sources but one doesn't sell to the public directly and the other only sells in drums.