Trying to get more out of my car....60FTs!!!

[8UWITH6]

HI guys,

As you can see in my signiture below, my GN is running fairly well. That time below was done last weekend on my 16" Nitto Drag Radials. Im very pleased with how the car is running and the times, but I KNOW there is a lot more left in it. To fill you in on basic mods, the car has:

ENGINE:
Stock Turbo and IC
Blue Tops
3" MM DP, stock ported elbow
Hooker cat back
Comp Cams 206/206, springs, lifters, chain and gear, etc
Upgraded fuel system
14" K&N with cold air

TRANS:
Stock that I know of, stock D5, getting sloppy

REAR/SUSP:
Snubber
Air bags (which I dont really use)
Front bar unhooked
Otherwise stock, I know I need shocks soon

So, now that you have an idea of my setup, specifics are that this particular time to the track, I was running 110 octane turbo blue fuel with a Jay Carter 110 race chip. Boost was set to 20, slight creep to 21 in 3rd gear. Static FP was 43. 02s down the track where 800s most if the way that I saw, and according to Scanmaster the lowest was 792 at 105mph on the recall, no KR at all.

Now, Im very happy with my ET and MPH, although I was hoping for 110 mph. The place Im hurting at is getting out of the hole. My 60fts have been ranging from 1.9x to 2.0X the past 2 times to the track. (5 total passes). The tires have about 10 good passes on them, burning the hell out of them every time. My best 60ft with my nittos is 1.92, which IMO isnt good. Im leaving the line anywhere from 2 to 5 psi of boost depending on the track. When Im ready to let go I lift the brake and stomp the throttle immediatly, and the car feels GREAT leaving, spools fast, etc. But the proof isnt there. Occasionally Ill get a SLIGHT amount of spin from the tires about 20 feet out, which I do know hurts the 60ft, but its not spinning long AT ALL. The times it doesnt spin is when I leave at 3psi or less......I honestly dont always look at the boost guage, I just do it by feel. When I "baby" it out of the hole I still get 2.0X 60ft times. I was hoping for 1.8s or even 1.7s??? Where are they?? Do you see anything wrong with my tune/combo?? The car feels GREAT finally.....I just want some 12.40s and 110-112 mph if possible.


Things I have thought about doing:

Turning up the boost another pound to lean it out some more, but Im kinda chicken

1psi less FP to possibly lean it out

Rear shocks

Uncapping the exhaust

Different chips

I appreciate any help/opinions you can give me, thank you in advance.

Sorry for the long topic

 

[8UWITH6]

60ft = 1.9232
330ft = 5.2611
1/8et = 8.0773
1/8mph = 86.99
1000et = 10.5310
1000mph = 100.60
1/4et = 12.6148
1/4mph = 108.09

Scanmaster Recall: 800 02s at 105mph
0.0KR at 000mph

Coolant Temp Approx 178-182*

20psi of boost in 1st and 2nd gear
21psi of boost in 3rd gear
FP static 43
4psi launch
Locked Converter

 

[KEVINS]

The stock IC will go 110+ although it's not going to be very efficient over 21 psi. There are 3 of us that run 12.0's to 11.8's @ 110-114 with stock IC. We run slicks also. I'd say it's all in the 60' as you're thinking. If the shocks are bad then good shocks will make a difference. Someone is getting LOW 1.6's with nittos and they found that the tire pressure was the key. They found 17psi to be the magic number. If you're only leaving on 3psi and the tires don't spin until 20 feet out then try softer front shocks to get the front to rise quicker. This should allow you to launch with more boost. Without seeing the car launch it sounds like you need to "shock" the tires a bit harder to get the weight transferred back sooner. You need to leave with more boost and have a quicker front end rise.

If you get new front shocks get some adjustable ones so you can switch between 70/30 and 90/10. Good stiff HD rears are necessary also.
I run about 25psi in the left air bag and about 40psi in the right rear. This will help keep an even amount of force on both tires during launch.

Regards
KS

 

[8UWITH6]

Thank you for the replies KS.

About the air bags, I usually have 5psi or less in them. When I try 15 in the pass and say 10 in the drivers, hell, any air over 5psi, I get TERRIBLE wheel hop when I burnout or launch. Shocks maybe?

Anyway, some things I plan on doing very soon:

KYB or Monroe Sensatrac Shocks in the rear

90/10s in front next spring

S-10 rear-brake cylinders

Tranny rebuild, starting to get sloppy

As for launching techniques, I cant seem to hold much over 5psi w/o the tires starting to spin on my at the line. My car has NEVER crept forward on me. I tried an ebrake launch one time, 6psi, the Nittos went up in smoke. Speaking of Nittos, I was running 20psi that night I think, I usually run 18. I will try 17 next time.

I think if I can get a 1.8 and lean the car out a TAD, I can get 12.30s or so. Im really shooting for 110 mph, we will see. Once I get there, Im upgrading my IC and will have a strong tranny.

Any thoughts on moving my stock IC up front?

Anyone else have any thoughts? THANKS

 

[KEVINS]

ooo Wheel hop.. that nasty little thing that makes you say WHOA!!! Shocks will help and you may consider new control arm bushings if you don't already have them.
As far as technique I would try and build as much boost on the line as possible BUT when I let up on the brake I would NOT floor the accelerator. I would just leave it at, say, 1/2-3/4 throttle until the car has its weight transferred back (after 15-20 feet?) and then start slowly pressing the accelerator down. The higher boost/lighter throttle, on the launch should shock the tires enough to get some additional traction and get the car starting to transfer the weight. Then apply more power as it gets moving..
Moving the stock IC will prolly help get cooler air but its up to you if it's worth the trouble I would rather try and tune it, so for me it wouldn't be. I also keep good notes on every run so I know what changes helped or hurt.

Good luck Neil
ks

 

[8UWITH6]

Thanks for the info. I will probably do bushings along with boxing the lowers this spring. We will see.

Im gonna get rear shocks this week, and have another go at it this weekend. THANKS

 

[azgn]

your 60' times have little to do with your speed...to get faster speed, you need more HP......in fact, better 60' times will slow you down in the 1/4......you have the right idea, keep adding boost until you start seeing knock...then add some fuel and see if you can overcome the knock

Nittos are not decent tires for racing...they are fine for the street, but nowhere close to slicks or DOT slicks at the track (they ARE better than regular radials, but just barely)

if you want good et's, get good tires, a converter matched to your turbo, good rear brakes (or a trans brake), and a line lock to keep the brakes cool

a trans brake,slicks and a proper converter will net you the best 60' times (and prolly the most broken parts....... )

 

[SLOS-10]

I don't know a whole lot about these cars..but it doesn't make sense to say that the nittos are not suitable....if people have ran 1.60's in the 60 ft. on these tires....it sounds like they can't be too bad. It sounds like pressure and other tuning in the rear may be the key to getting the tires to work.

 

[UNGN]

Try more air in the right rear air bag and none in the driver side.

Because my posi is nearly dead, I can tell when I need more airbag air (the driver side tire doesn't spin during the burn out)

Adding more air until they both spin can mean as much as 30 psi in the passenger bag (of course, none in the driver side) It depends on fuel level, spare weight, etc, but sufice to say, the more gas you run, the more air you will need.

Even with my dead posi, I'm able to get fairly consistant high 1.6 60fts with 275/60 drag radials at 20 psi.

 

[WSLN 6]

I dropped a consistent 1/10 of a second off my 60ft by removing my front sway bar. Real easy to do for that kind of improvement. Lowered my ET 1.5 tenths.
Nice improvement......just don't take any big off ramps until it's back on!

 

[Darklord]

Keep experimenting with the Nittos. They are a pretty good tire for a 12 sec. street driven GN. I've ran the 275/50-15s and managed to run consistent 1.8s and if the track is prepped well have dipped to low 1.7s. They do seem more prone to wheelhop though especially if your rear suspension setup isn't 100%.

 

[8UWITH6]

Originally posted by Darklord
Keep experimenting with the Nittos. They are a pretty good tire for a 12 sec. street driven GN. I've ran the 275/50-15s and managed to run consistent 1.8s and if the track is prepped well have dipped to low 1.7s. They do seem more prone to wheelhop though especially if your rear suspension setup isn't 100%.

I have 245/50R16 NITTOS on GTA rims. My suspension is stock with the exception of airbags and a snubber. Future plans are new shocks, new control arm bushings, and boxing the lower control arms. Hopefully after that I will be able to get these 1.7s everyone talks about. I gotta get my car to a good track. Last night I was at the track running 12.70s at 110 mph with 2.2-2.4 60fts. It was UNREAL, on my 2nd pass I spun from 20 feet out of the hole to probably the 1/8th mile. It was COLD though, upper 40s, once the car hooked up though, it pulled VERY VERY HARD in the cold. If I can get a 1.7, I think my car will be very close to 12.20s or better.........thanks for the replys.

 

[azgn]

get some tires designed for drag racing....radials aren't

 

[NOSjohnWE4]

tires

Neil,
if you have the cash, break out and spend $300 on a set of 26x10x15's M/T slicks. i have a set on the Monte and consistantly get 1.73 - 1.75 60 foot times.
ET is lacking due to an ignition problem whereas i couldn't shift at the desired 6500RPM (high RPM popping), so i had to make due with 12.80's (shifting at a wimpy 6100), for the remainder of the season until my head seized. lol....the laws of racing. i think i was headed for low 12's. i spent $600 on an entire Holley system only to have the head go. tsk tsk me...

 

[UNGN]

Low to mid 1.7 60 fts should not be too hard with nittos at a properly prepped track. They probably will need a monster burn out, however. If all I could get out of slicks was 1.7 60 fts, I wouldn't waste my time with them. Drag Radials WILL do that. If they don't, your rear suspension needs further help/tuning or the track you run at is crap.

Of course this is just my opinion and is based solely on my own personal experiences.

 

[NOSjohnWE4]

tires

UNGN,
READ before you PROCEED. is your car normally aspirated? does it run 12.80 on the motor? is your cars engine and suspension set up for nitrous? NO ...so please do NOT riducule my opinion. 1.7's is a GREAT time for a N/A motor run. if your hitting 1.6's then i hope you're in the 11's because when i hit 1.6 or 1.5 with the NOS, i'm not going to be going 12's. BTW, yes... the track in Cicero, NY is NOT prepped very good SO i'm still ahead of the game. (please, don't add to my already bad night).

 

[8UWITH6]

Re: tires

Originally posted by NOSjohnWE4
UNGN,
READ before you PROCEED. is your car normally aspirated? does it run 12.80 on the motor? is your cars engine and suspension set up for nitrous? NO ...so please do NOT riducule my opinion. 1.7's is a GREAT time for a N/A motor run. if your hitting 1.6's then i hope you're in the 11's because when i hit 1.6 or 1.5 with the NOS, i'm not going to be going 12's. BTW, yes... the track in Cicero, NY is NOT prepped very good SO i'm still ahead of the game. (please, don't add to my already bad night).

He was talking to me about Nittos. When I got my GTA rims I looked at ET Drags, ET Streets, and Drag Radials.......and I made the decision I did because I dont want to be driving around on the street on slicks, or taking long trips. I drive my car a lot on the street.......I will invest in slicks sometime in the future, but not now. I KNOW slicks will yield better ET, but Im trying to make what I have WORK WELL......I appreciate all the responses, I am trying to get the car to hook on Nittos, not Slicks. I think I need to turn some of my attention to my rear suspension. I know I need shocks, and boxed lowers and new bushings would help too. We will see how that goes......thanks guys!

 

[needboost]

neil, i dont know if they alow it at the track you go to but try some "Track Bite" before you stage. or treat the tires. i'm a huge fan of formula V.

 

[KEVINS]

With our truck: Something that we do is pay attention to the car in front of us. Get behind a car that has slicks on instead of street type tires. The slicks will put down a bit of good rubber that could help you out.
We race with slicks, and we will let a few people behind us go first so someone with slicks will put down fresh rubber.

ks

 

[TTA89]

I agree, Nittos suck.

Best I could do on them was only a 1.62. My friend did a little better when he borrowed them from me and went 1.59.