Tuning which way ?

[turbojoe1]

Very good tread, tons of useful information and question.

Thanks Joe

 

[GNRick]

TT chips deliver a static amount of fuel at wot. If you run your car at the boost and combo you told eric when you bought the chip, then it'll be close. If you add or take away boost though, the fuel needs to be adjusted for optimum performance.

Is this fuel something different than we see on a fuel pressure gauge? Also, if we don't have a wide band, can we just trust the chip to deliver the optimal air fuel mix?

 

[we4Mateo]

Is this fuel something different than we see on a fuel pressure gauge? Also, if we don't have a wide band, can we just trust the chip to deliver the optimal air fuel mix?

2nd ? first, not with a TT chip. The wot fuel delivery is static, no matter how much or little boost you run. So, if you deviate at all from what Eric set your chip up for, and hell, even with default settings, wot fuel delivery settings need to be tweaked for best air fuel ratio. With the Bailey chip, you fine tune your wot afr through the chip or translator, but it reads real airflow at wot and thus requires less adjusting after being set. The reason I switched from TT to Bailey chip is that at the track with my tc unlocked, the car makes say 25psi of boost, when I lock my tc, the boost climbs to 28psi from the extra load. Since TT chip fueling is static, I'd have to add enough fuel to make the afr at 28 psi my target with tc locked, but then at 25psi tc open, the car would be rich; because it delivers the same amount of wot fuel regardless of airflow. Once I had my afr set in the Bailey chip, I can run 14psi or 30psi and the Bailey chip reads the real airflow and automatically adjusts the amount of fuel delivered. This also makes my afr at 25psi and 28psi at the track the same, so I picked up some ET @ mph by not running it rich with the TC open.

To answer the 1st question, fuel pressure is set it and forget it. All fueling adjustments that I make are through the chip (TT) or through the chip/translator (Bailey chip). To elaborate on the 2nd question, we as a community have been tuning with the NB sensor for years, but after having a wideband, I see how inconsistent the narrowband is. As long as the car is up to snuff, namely your fuel system, you can trust the car to be safe on a no knock tune, but you'll never get ideal afr by only tuning with the narrowband. If you dyno it, you could get your fueling set using a tailpipe wideband, but if you change boost, or get in good air, or change anything that really affects airflow, then you'll need to adjust your TT chip where Bailey will adjust automatically. This only applies to the non-SD TT chips though. The TT SD chips have a lot more capability but they see extra flow via the MAP sensor and still not through a MAF at wot.

 

[TurboTdr3.8]

Once I had my afr set in the Bailey chip, I can run 14psi or 30psi and the Bailey chip reads the real airflow and automatically adjusts the amount of fuel delivered.

I like this concept ,thanks for the info , I will look into that chip for sure . I will be using his modded ecm anyway and with his chip will be a win win situation . Is this the chip you are refering to TurboTweak Buick v6.1 Wideband 02 Chip ?

 

[GNRick]

2nd ? first, not with a TT chip. The wot fuel delivery is static, no matter how much or little boost you run. So, if you deviate at all from what Eric set your chip up for, and hell, even with default settings, wot fuel delivery settings need to be tweaked for best air fuel ratio. With the Bailey chip, you fine tune your wot afr through the chip or translator, but it reads real airflow at wot and thus requires less adjusting after being set. The reason I switched from TT to Bailey chip is that at the track with my tc unlocked, the car makes say 25psi of boost, when I lock my tc, the boost climbs to 28psi from the extra load. Since TT chip fueling is static, I'd have to add enough fuel to make the afr at 28 psi my target with tc locked, but then at 25psi tc open, the car would be rich; because it delivers the same amount of wot fuel regardless of airflow. Once I had my afr set in the Bailey chip, I can run 14psi or 30psi and the Bailey chip reads the real airflow and automatically adjusts the amount of fuel delivered. This also makes my afr at 25psi and 28psi at the track the same, so I picked up some ET @ mph by not running it rich with the TC open.

To answer the 1st question, fuel pressure is set it and forget it. All fueling adjustments that I make are through the chip (TT) or through the chip/translator (Bailey chip). To elaborate on the 2nd question, we as a community have been tuning with the NB sensor for years, but after having a wideband, I see how inconsistent the narrowband is. As long as the car is up to snuff, namely your fuel system, you can trust the car to be safe on a no knock tune, but you'll never get ideal afr by only tuning with the narrowband. If you dyno it, you could get your fueling set using a tailpipe wideband, but if you change boost, or get in good air, or change anything that really affects airflow, then you'll need to adjust your TT chip where Bailey will adjust automatically. This only applies to the non-SD TT chips though. The TT SD chips have a lot more capability but they see extra flow via the MAP sensor and still not through a MAF at wot.

Thanks! Very informative.

 

[Ttype6]

I like this concept ,thanks for the info , I will look into that chip for sure . I will be using his modded ecm anyway and with his chip will be a win win situation . Is this the chip you are refering to TurboTweak Buick v6.1 Wideband 02 Chip ?

He's referring to the extender and extender extreme chips.

http://fullthrottlespeed.com/items.asp+Cc+BUCHIP+iTpStatus+0+Tp++Bc+

 

[we4Mateo]

He's referring to the extender and extender extreme chips.

http://fullthrottlespeed.com/items.asp Cc BUCHIP iTpStatus 0 Tp Bc

Correct, I run the extender. The TT 6.1 WB chip is great, but you'll need a powerlogger with it; not that it's a bad thing. I don't have a powerlogger and when ready to get serious about logging, I'll probably go FAST XFI. I like a simple setup and I've found it with my extender chip and old school translator. I'm sure I leave a couple tenths on the table, but I drive the car 10k miles per year and don't really mess with much as far as settings go; which may be a downside to some as tinkering with these cars is half the fun, for some.

 

[Ttype6]

Is this fuel something different than we see on a fuel pressure gauge?

We set the fuel pressure with a gauge. Depending on which chip you use(Bailey or Turbo Tweak),you will set your fuel pressure (idle with vacuum line removed) to 45 or 43 respectively. To give the motor more or less fuel,depending on what information your wideband is giving you,there are adjustable parameters built into the chip. When we change the numbers in the WOT fuel parameter,we are telling the computer to turn the injectors on for a longer period of time to give the motor more fuel or a shorter period of time to give the motor less fuel.

 

[we4Mateo]

We set the fuel pressure with a gauge. Depending on which chip you use(Bailey or Turbo Tweak),you will set your fuel pressure (idle with vacuum line removed) to 45 or 43 respectively. ...

To also note, I never set my fuel pressure with a gauge. I get it close to what the chip maker wants and then adjust it up or down until the BLs are as close to centered at cruise, around 128. Unless you have a certified gauge, you never know what it really is. The gauge is great for checking fuel pressure rise under boost, but just give the computer what it wants, and it'll run well. I've been setting fuel pressure this way for years and raced much. I usually end up lowering it from where the gauge indicated was correct. And lower base fp, as long as the computer is happy, will make it easier for your pump to keep up under high boost demands.

 

[Ttype6]

To also note, I never set my fuel pressure with a gauge. I get it close to what the chip maker wants and then adjust it up or down until the BLs are as close to centered at cruise, around 128.

There's no real need to get the BLM number to 128,but I do try to get it close also. Again there's no practical reason to do this as the computer will adjust to get the A/F ratio at 14.7/1 during closed loop operation. If we lower the base fuel pressure we will need to turn the injectors on for a longer period of time during WOT operation. Either way,the fuel system will have to send the same amount of fuel to the motor. If we have a situation where our pump is close to the upper limit of its delivery capabilities and we have plenty of injector,we could turn down the pressure and increase the on time of the injector at WOT. If the pump is not near the upper limit of its capability,I prefer to run base pressure as high as the chip maker suggests. If a person wants to see his idle and cruise BLM number at or near 128,the Extender and Extender Extreme chips have a BLM correction parameter to move this number up or down. This is another reason I prefer the Bailey chips. If the BLM is at 132 at an idle and cruise we can enter the BLM correction parameter and raise the default number from 8 to 9. This will richen the system,from idle to WOT. When we move the default number up from 8 to 9 the Oxygen sensor sees the extra fuel and shortens the on time of the injectors to bring the A/F ratio back to 14.7 to 1. The BLM will fall to 128. Every up or down movement of the BLM correction number results in a corresponding 4 number movement up or down of the BLM number. I love this feature. If you have a good MAF,the BLM should be pretty close to 128 at the default setting.