tuning

[turbota633]

i am new to the alky injection, ive only been to the track once with the alky kit. any tips?..seems like my 02's read higher now that im on alky, also it seems liek the 02's jump around a lot..ex: from low 800's to 840, then back down, is this normal(iam using scanmaster)? currently my setup is ta49,bluetops,adj. wastegate,adj. FPR,red armstrong 93 chip,smc alky kit(100%denatured alky&about 1-2 oz marvel mystery oil) -pump speed set at 6-7,at low boost level,k&n cold air intake w/one screen removed from MAF,3in. flowmasters, my best run on alky was 13.69@98.62,and i saw 3.5 degrees knock, i see a lot of people with much better times on alky and are cliose to stock or run same setup as me. i know tuning and seat time are important, but any tips to tune would be helpfull and greatly appreciated...my short term goal is to see low 13's-high 12's and sub-2 second 60ft times(best 60ft ever for me came on that 13.69 last night...a 2.001..oooh so close) and over 100 mph trap speed(whch shouldnt be hard since ive seen these numbers before) i also have a question, would wrapping the alky bottle in insulated tape help since it would keep the alky cooler, or is this a waste of $$? thanks in advance for any help, i will be hitting the track a lot ince very soon i am leaving for iraq, so i am lloking to reach my goal soon:-D.

-joe
86 gn
89 tta#633
69 dart gt 440/727

 

[Razor]

Well there are some things that you'll have to understand. One is that its a fuel, so adding alcohol to a normally tuned car will make it richer. Like if you added another injector and made no changes.. you'd be richer. Typically alcohol chip's timing and injector DC will be very different from a regular street chip. And not as aggressive as a race chip.

A lot of issues that plague cars running alcohol can be attributed to inproper chip calibration, too high a fuel pressure, or some other issue like a vacuum leak for instance which will throw all the numbers off.

Simple tips.. make sure the blm tables are operating within normal ranges while driving around. Just put your scanmaster on BL and watch the numbers while driving around.. idling.. cruising.. etc. They better be close to range +,- 10 from 128. If they peg to 90 or 160.. you have an issue to address.

Next is get the O2's down, with alky you should be able and run the car down into the mid 700's without issue..and your knock better only be on shifts.. not in the middle of a gear.

If you run 21 PSI, lock the converer, get some better tires.. you may be able to hit the 12's.. on slicks, 23 PSI, good chip.. lower 12's at about 108-110. Pump speed on your SMC will have to come up as well.

Easiest way into the 12's.. up the boost.

HTH

 

[turbota633]

currently i am running a red armstrong 93 chip, i also have a red armstrong 108 chip, would using this chip show improvments or would it be bad?, also my fp at idle is 39, should i lower it since i am running alky. also i had an issue wit the way the person before me had the low/high setting at, he had it way high because he was running 24 or so psi, whereas i was set at about 16 when i was experimenting with it, so now i have turned it down so it turns on around 12 psi,and the pump speed is around 5-6(more??), saw no knock, upped the boost to about 19. but 02's still in the 800's, not as high as before since i turned it down more, i now know where im at since i installed my fp guage today. , also i thought about putting a little xylene in the gas before i goto the track to act as sort of a back-up to ensure to keep knock down,...good idea or bad?.ahh, so many things i wanna know, but cant think of all of them right now, ...but its fun to tune..tune tune, and learn ..learn ..learn as i make progression.

thanks,
-joe

 

[Razor]

Well see your idle fuel pressure is to be setup up to tailor your BLM's to your car. Changing fuel pressure makes the computer get skewed to keep things in line. So you set fuel pressure where your drivability is best setup for the chip being used.

If the chip commands way too much fuel for your application, dropping fuel pressure isnt the answer, dropping injector duty cycle in the chip is. One thing is idle/drivability.. the other is WOT. Typically street chips are designed to run 16-20 PSI boost and are programmed for that DC on the injectors. You go add alky and run 24 it works pretty good. You have fuel on the chip for 20, fuel for alky, and allowed to run leaner with alky.. hence it works.

Now you run 18 PSI boost on a street chip.. its going to be way rich with alcohol. Fix.. get a chip burned with less inj DC. Another fix is really turn down the alcohol volume. But some aftermarket controllers wont work at lower settings. I dont want to point fingers. You may be able to bandaid the situation by going to a smaller nozzle.

Just something for you to think about.

 

[turbota633]

i leaned it out and now am seeing knock, also as far as teh chip goes...how about going from the 93 chip to the 108, to me it seems like a steep jump, i wish i had a 100 chip, i would experiment,but to goto 108 is a big change,so i figured id ask before i trial and error that one and break somethin. also, so you are saying tune the fp at idle to get the BL value as close to 128 as possible, and this should also make the numbers close at higher rpm's?

-joe

 

[Razor]

If you want to really see knock, put the 108 chip in.

You need a chip that locks your BLM's at WOT, or get a custom made alky chip. To run lower boost with alcohol is harder than to do so with higher boost.

If you set your FP at the recommended setting by the chip maker, your idle BLM's should be correct. The reds93 chip should be around 41-43 PSI line off. Then work from there.

 

[turbota633]

i am gettin frustrated, i make changes to get better but get worse. the car began to smoke slightly about a month or 2 ago,well it has evolved into a cloud now,using oil and there is oil residue in the end of the tailpipes..it runs the same as always, just now it likes some smokes with its alky. i am thinkin about turning off the alky and tuning it in like i had it before,then turn the alky on and take it slowly to see if i can work off of somethin that already works to make it better. i really wish i knew the trick to how you guys can run over 20 psi on pump gas with alky and see such little knock, i barely hit 18 with the alky on, and saw knock at or over 10,tweaked the alky turn on point and still usually the same give or take a few in either direction.

-joe

 

[Razor]

Joe,
its like this. First you need to have a car running 15 PSI without alcohol. And it has to run this boost without any issues. No knock, idle bl's at 120-136, O2's in the upper 700's top of third gear.

If the motor is stock you should be able to run 17-18 PSI with a street chip. Soem cars a little more, some cars a little less boost wise. If it wont run this PSI boost.. start looking for your problem without alcohol involved. Alky will not fix a fueling problem..

Next I am under the ASSUMPTION that your alcohol system if functioning properly. But at this point,..drop boost..get it working correctly.. then add a little boost.. add a little alcohol..see if things are working. I bet after the little hurdle you have in front of you is passed..it will be smooth sailing.

A simple example of what I mean running correctly.. your motor has a vacuum leak, to fix the extra air.. the computer adds fuel.. now your idle BL tables are high.. next you go and hit the gas..the motor is overly rich.. followed by spraying alcohol..making the rich condition even worse. Ive seen bad MAF sensors cuase your condition as well.. where it doesnt go to 255 at WOT.. cuasing problems.

Get the car to run clean at 15 PSI.. i'll help you from there. If its an alky problem, you should be able to setup the motor at 15 PSI in less than 10 minutes.

Report back,
List your scanmaster readings "at idle". I want to see all the numbers..

 

[OneLethal87GN]

You may have more than just tuning problems. I ran 18 psi with 0 knock on the Scanmaster. This was done with a high timing (@30 degrees) race chip. I didn't get a chance to turn the boost up more because, soon after, the engine started making a ticking noise which turned out to be the bearings eating up my po' little crankshaft. All is well now but I did switch back to a street chip with only 20 degrees timing. Now I need to contact Eric for a custom chip so I can go 'Stang hunting.

 

[turbota633]

"A simple example of what I mean running correctly.. your motor has a vacuum leak, to fix the extra air.. the computer adds fuel.. now your idle BL tables are high.. next you go and hit the gas..the motor is overly rich.. followed by spraying alcohol..making the rich condition even worse. Ive seen bad MAF sensors cuase your condition as well.. where it doesnt go to 255 at WOT.. cuasing problems."

razor, by this are you explaining the reason behind my cars smoking issue?

-joe

 

[Razor]

See my Buick crystal ball knew there was trouble brewing on the island.

Easy fix.. get me a couple plane tickets and I'll be rite over

 

[turbota633]

damn, i am gettin some tickets for me to go back to the mainland(ohio) for a visit before going to iraq..., too bad the buick is too large to pack..hehe. as much as id like to get it tuned in, i really dont have much time left. from aug 7 til sept 10 ill be in korea,then i will be home til mid october..and on top of that im trying to sell it before i goto iraq in december., and probably before i goto training in november before i deploy. so my worries arent really to race it too much and hurt it but rather to be able to sell it.

-joe

 

[turbota633]

hey razor, here are my scanmasters readings, these all were taken while the car sat at idle,after i returned from a drive around the block which lasted no more than 2 minutes.

-02's> mostly bounced around in the 500's,saw one or two 400's,one 600 and a few 190's
-af> 04
-lb>27
-bat>13.6
-int>135
bl>153
-clt>170
-ats>87
-r> 800-850
-tps>.46
-iac>0
-mal>0

-joe

 

[Razor]

BINGO..ding ding.. BL153 is a huge problem.

Computer needs to be around 128. 153 means its adding a bunch of fuel. Typically due to a vacuum hose issue. If you go to the other board, www.T6P.com , go to the library, I made a post chasing the BLM's.. should get you pointed.

I bet the fuel economy is in the toilet, I bet your oil smells like gasoline. Better keep fresh oil in the motor till this issue is resolved. See the extra fuel is cuasing washdown in your cylinders..getting into the oil.

It will never run rite till all the numbers fall into line. I personally like the TPS to be at .42-.44. .46 is the edge

Now go hunt the problem keep guns away from the car.. and everytime you make a change.. reset the ECM and wait for it to relearn.

Julio

 

[Razor]

Better yet,

http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1127

And you can search "BLM" on this board as well.

 

[turbota633]

ok, i have had a few people tell me that the seal was bad on the piston ring, and that they need replaced. but i read your post on t6p and you did not mention this, so are they wrong? in my case my car is smoking badly and the bl's are high which means vacuum leak or anything else you listed? i dont know if i listd this before but at the tailpipes there is dark black oil residue and ive also notced a slight oil residue wetness right where the wastegate rod connects to the pivoting "L" piece on the turbo.
thank you for all the patience you've had with me over the past week or so,i appreciate the help very much. i am going to do the tests you listed on the t6p site and see what happens.

-joe

 

[Razor]

You want to see if you have a bad ring?.. pull the spark plugs, "IF" one of the cylinders is "burning" oil.. it will come out all coked up with oil on the tip of the spark plug. This is spark plug reading 101.

I bet if there was an oil issue, it would be your turbo seal going bad, not pistons. Who ever said piston rings.. stay away from for advice.. really. I hate people who pull **** out of theyre head to scare someone without knowing what theyre talking about.

Your car sounds like it has multiple issues. Make a list.. start working on them. If the turbo seal is bad.. it may have been blowing oil into your motor, a quick inspection of the inside of the IC will reveal this. And if so, do not continue racing the car. The extra oil in the air will build up on top of pistons, valves, etc.. as crud.. which will lead to detonation.

So with a burning oil issue, high BLM's.. how do you expect it to run cleanly at 18-20 PSI boost?

Is this like lifting weights with a hurt back.. get the car in tune.. then go play.. not a second before. You have your work cut out. And these issues are not alky related.

HTH

 

[turbota633]

yea,i didnt figure they were alky related since the smoking started before i got the alky kit installed, and i have only been out once sine that so,hopefully i can work things out with it since id like to get it out again. but thanks again.

-joe

 

[Razor]

Good luck. Make a list of things that are wrong, and start working on them. Eventually.. you'll almost be out of stuff to do.. then the car becomes enjoyable.

The oil will not cuase your BLM's to be elevated. Rotten vacuum hoses, bad MAF, bad PCV, etc.. will.

No majic.. just some elbow grease, patience, and understanding.

 

[turbota633]

julio,
i got a gasket to put on the vacuum block, also i got a vaccum tester, i was wondering is there any certain number of vacuum i am looking for..i mean what level would make it high or low that would cause an issue?also,if i put gasket under the vacuum block,then to test the vacuum hoses..i would test them at the ends, not on the fitting closest to the vacuum block because im looking for a leak somewhere in the whole hose..correct? i am going to go put the gsket on and get some readings from my vacuum tester, i wil check back soon and post my readings. thanks

-joe