I just got my gauge mounted. Car is running at 7 lbs tops on boost. Comes on slow too. Car is all stock 84 gn with k&n cold air and turndown exhaust. Has adjustment rod on turbo, but I had it in the sweet spot pre guage and had to fool with it. Like a dummy I didnt mark it and now it seems no matter which way I adjust it there is no improvement. Is that maximum boost for a stock hotair? The adj rod connects to a lever perpendicular to the turbo. Which way does this need to go to actuate boost quicker? adjust rod tighter making the perpendicular lever move towards the driver side or adjust lever longer moving it towards pass side? Help please?
turbo boost?
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my85grandnation
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Stock boost I believe is around 12lbs. Where did you hook your gauge up? Maybe you didnt hook it up to the right place. I have found the best place to put a boost gauge is on the front of the intake kind of behind and to the left a bit from the coil pack there is an unused port that has a plug in it. Take that plug out and take it with you to an auto parts store and get a fitting to screw in place of it that you can hook your boost gauge line to. As for the rod I think the longer it is the more boost but cant remember for sure. I would also check all of your vacum lines to and from the turbo and wastegate to make sure there are no leaks in them as that will cause low boost if they are leaking.
my85grandnation
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Heres a pic of what the plug looks like. It is kind of blurry but you can see what you will be looking for.
my85grandnation
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Well I cant get the pic to work for some reason. I will try again in a little bit.
my85grandnation
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Well make sure to check all your vacum lines as well, as well as all the connections for the boost gauge because if there is a leak anywhere in any of that stuff it will cause low boost.
Update and more questions!!!
Havent found any vacuum leaks. I shortened the adj rod thus bottoming it out. Boost comes quick just off idle now. It reads 10.5 lbs tops on acceleration. Car is much more fun. Car has crappy single shot with flowmaster which will be changed soon. Could that be limiting me too being that a flowmaster is not a straight through design? How do guys get 16-20 lbs of boost off these cars?
Havent found any vacuum leaks. I shortened the adj rod thus bottoming it out. Boost comes quick just off idle now. It reads 10.5 lbs tops on acceleration. Car is much more fun. Car has crappy single shot with flowmaster which will be changed soon. Could that be limiting me too being that a flowmaster is not a straight through design? How do guys get 16-20 lbs of boost off these cars?
Jerryl
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Re: 10.5 lbs boost
You have any exhaust leaks pre-turbo?
Is the car running really rich?
Is the correct plastic "Y" installed?
Exhaust can limit boost, but unless is is really bad, you should not see any affect at this low boost level. One way to get the boost up is to shorten the rod 1/4"
BRAD_PADGETT
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BLESTX- The only way so can increase boost is with race gas or Alky injection. Before you ever fool with the waste gate actuator install a working knock gauge. In my younger days I blew up my motor because I did not have a knock gauge. I shortened the waste gate actuator a little too much. Good luck- Brad
Jerryl
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Excellent advice!
(I think I'll go for another ride in this 65 deg sunny weather .......... Yeah, I'll take the T-tops down too :biggrin: )
questions
Car has some mods already but I am learning what is stock and what is not. My earlier question.... what is max boost a stock 84 will reach. Brad answered cannot get anymore with out race gas. My question is I know that as a safety precaution, but are you saying the factory computer kills boost because of knock or detonation? Or, is 12lbs all I can get until I upgrade the turbo? I am asking because the adj is bottomed out. What would it look like if the fuel pump hotwire kit is already on the car, or should I just run a testmeter at the tank to see what kind of voltage it is getting? The car has a rebuilt eng, reman turbo, k&n lower control arms, gauges and it looks like at one time had a scanmaster or something mounted inside. Ill take your advice and stay out of it until I get a adj fuel pressure regulator, hot wire kit and knock sensor. I am gonna get a decent exhaust on it too. Probably by March ,i HOPE. I know these are beginner questions but I want to run low 12's with it or I may convert to 87 intercooled setup. I had a 6spd ls1 ss so I miss the speed. I know this car can eat that one for lunch with the right mods. I can fabricate so I will probably make some suspension parts and braces up myself. ANy help I can get from each of you is greatly appreciated.
Hey brad on the electric fan setup. What are you running? Happy with it? It gets in the humid 100-110 here. Would a third gen f body fan setup work with a summit relay kit?
Car has some mods already but I am learning what is stock and what is not. My earlier question.... what is max boost a stock 84 will reach. Brad answered cannot get anymore with out race gas. My question is I know that as a safety precaution, but are you saying the factory computer kills boost because of knock or detonation? Or, is 12lbs all I can get until I upgrade the turbo? I am asking because the adj is bottomed out. What would it look like if the fuel pump hotwire kit is already on the car, or should I just run a testmeter at the tank to see what kind of voltage it is getting? The car has a rebuilt eng, reman turbo, k&n lower control arms, gauges and it looks like at one time had a scanmaster or something mounted inside. Ill take your advice and stay out of it until I get a adj fuel pressure regulator, hot wire kit and knock sensor. I am gonna get a decent exhaust on it too. Probably by March ,i HOPE. I know these are beginner questions but I want to run low 12's with it or I may convert to 87 intercooled setup. I had a 6spd ls1 ss so I miss the speed. I know this car can eat that one for lunch with the right mods. I can fabricate so I will probably make some suspension parts and braces up myself. ANy help I can get from each of you is greatly appreciated.
Hey brad on the electric fan setup. What are you running? Happy with it? It gets in the humid 100-110 here. Would a third gen f body fan setup work with a summit relay kit?
Jerryl
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You are asking a lot of GOOD questions but, we can only give some advice to the tune of: It depends.
See every car is different, and the condition of the parts are unknown untill you test, but the guidelines remain constant.
I won’t write a 10 page desertation to bore you, but to run low 12's, you will need around:
425 HP at the tires.
650 CFM going in
Injectors and fuel at XX lbs/hr @ 85% DC @ 0.X BSFC (See numerous available spreadsheets)
Traction
So, on a stock HA with the current 93 gas, you may be able to run around 10 PSI / 18deg timing.
Some have run as high as 18 PSI, no alky, on 93, but that is not common and certainly not stock.
Now, to keep it KR free, is the biggest challenge.
Sure you can throw performance parts at it, but without tuning, they may slow you down.
Sure, you can "turn up the wick" with stock parts but the car won't last until everything is in tip top shape and you have a good way to "monitor the beast".
Remember this: Despite the similarities between the IC'd cars and HA's, there are also some tricks on the HA's that only apply to these cars. (And VisaVersa)
It takes a plan, based on your goal, thoughtfully executed without shortcuts, and knowledge of the car with the willingness to pay the price.
For some, the price paid and the busted knuckles are considerably less than others.
I am no expert, but there is one piece of advice I will give:
If you purchased the car from someone you don't really know, Question Everthing they did or told you!
If you don't, it can become real expensive real quick!
Edit:
Happy reading!
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/ho...ow-12-second-hot-air.html?highlight=max+boost
BRAD_PADGETT
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[Hey brad on the electric fan setup. What are you running? Happy with it? It gets in the humid 100-110 here. Would a third gen f body fan setup work with a summit relay kit?[/QUOTE]
The correct cooling option is an f-body rad setup. Here is what you need to cool a hot air down in 100 plus degree heat to 170 degrees.
1. 87 ECM with a turbotweak chip.
2. Mat sensor from Caspers.
3. F-body radiator-one choice is a modine 951.
4. Caspers 84/85 conversion kit to the 86/87 electric fan.
5. 87 Cutlass V8 radiator hold down plate.
6. Dual ramcharger fans from GBODYPARTS with the connector adapter.
7. 160 degree thermostat
That should do it. If I forgot something let me know. Brad
The correct cooling option is an f-body rad setup. Here is what you need to cool a hot air down in 100 plus degree heat to 170 degrees.
1. 87 ECM with a turbotweak chip.
2. Mat sensor from Caspers.
3. F-body radiator-one choice is a modine 951.
4. Caspers 84/85 conversion kit to the 86/87 electric fan.
5. 87 Cutlass V8 radiator hold down plate.
6. Dual ramcharger fans from GBODYPARTS with the connector adapter.
7. 160 degree thermostat
That should do it. If I forgot something let me know. Brad
BRAD_PADGETT
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I did forget number 8. Napa 7899 upper radiator hose. Brad
BRAD_PADGETT
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I sent a stock core to Limit Engineering and they rebuilt it it into a TA33C. It looks the same on the outside but the compressor throws out(700CFM) double the CFM as the stock one. It is a great turbo but it was expensive-$930. I have a stock turbo as well(spare) and it runs well too. Brad
Jerryl
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THESE ARE ALL ESTIMATES!!
Self - Correction of my own post (kinda like closed loop :tongue: ):
425 HP @ tires equates to 524 HP at the engine based on 90% VE and 90% DL efficiency. 524 HP takes ~787 CFM (required)
TA33 flows around 660 CFM or 53 lbs/min (Based on conversations with Limit). This ia goof for around 440HP at the crank. @90% VE and DLE, it equates to 350 @ the tires. (About 12.8/106/3700lbs)
It is my belief, that the "lack of flow" of the TA33 is the reason the experts never got much lower than low 12's.
Read post #10
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/ho...experience-regarding-ta33.html?highlight=TA33
One thing that may be limiting your boost is that cold air kit. As cool as it looks it really only helps at higher speeds when the air is really being rushed into it. You may wanna try to just run it with the K&N cone filter and see if it makes a difference. Ease into the throttle so you don't just go sky high on the boost and blow something. Also if you have a cat converter see if it is a bit plugged. had that happen on my first 84.
I am rebuilding my 84's engine now and I am gonna shoot for between 10-12 lbs of boost. Should be safe for 93 octane up here in NH.
Hope this helps.
Moe
I am rebuilding my 84's engine now and I am gonna shoot for between 10-12 lbs of boost. Should be safe for 93 octane up here in NH.
Hope this helps.
Moe
Thanks everyone
I played around today with it and noticed a harness cover a little heat damaged more than the last time I drove it. Dont worry just flimsy outer cover. I moved the harness out of the way and noticed that the braided steel wire on down pipe is not a flex coupler but some sort of cheap sleeve that I have never seen available before. Up pipe seems to be leaking some at couplings and down pipe is really leaking. It seems to be a 3 inch downpipe but it has some serious kinks at the bends from the way it was made. Guestimating that inner diameter is 2 and 1/4 to 2 and 1/2 with a waffled pipe appearance where the curves were bent into it. Car had several leaks. Tranny pan was leaking and bolts were not much more than hand tight. Oil pan was leaking and wasnt much more than hand tight either. I adjusted and it stopped nearly all of the leaking. Seems to be some motor oil coming down the block from the rear middle above the starter. Poss intake or valve cover leak. Its a slow leak at moment. I have a greddy t-78 turbo/ manifold mount and partial downpipe. The more I look at 86/87 upgrade costs the more I consider putting that turbo on an LS1 or 350 block.
mY ISSUES I want to keep the air(ac) / and get the car into low 12's and perform such that the car could be driven in a high speed event with no worries that the hot air downpipe will burst the car into flames. Has anyone pioneered a bracket to mount the hot air accessories on the driver side? This would make it feasable to make a custom header and run a turbo in the 86/87 location provided electric fans are there, intercool it and flow into stock or near stock 84 location via custom piping. And yes I have seen the post where the guy rotated a stock hot air turbo and intercooled it. My concern is all the plastic and piping and turbo not in line of cooling air. Yes , I KNOW ITS A DEAD HORSE! Just questions to those who have been there.
Question Alky. How safe and costly is this on a daily driven hard car. Costly as in per mile? Still doesnt address heat issue though with factory air box in way.
Any of you running an aftermarket under dash air system? I could see that that would free up space for hotair setup? If you are how do you like it? Did you have to make irreversible mods?
i WILL leave it at that for now.
I played around today with it and noticed a harness cover a little heat damaged more than the last time I drove it. Dont worry just flimsy outer cover. I moved the harness out of the way and noticed that the braided steel wire on down pipe is not a flex coupler but some sort of cheap sleeve that I have never seen available before. Up pipe seems to be leaking some at couplings and down pipe is really leaking. It seems to be a 3 inch downpipe but it has some serious kinks at the bends from the way it was made. Guestimating that inner diameter is 2 and 1/4 to 2 and 1/2 with a waffled pipe appearance where the curves were bent into it. Car had several leaks. Tranny pan was leaking and bolts were not much more than hand tight. Oil pan was leaking and wasnt much more than hand tight either. I adjusted and it stopped nearly all of the leaking. Seems to be some motor oil coming down the block from the rear middle above the starter. Poss intake or valve cover leak. Its a slow leak at moment. I have a greddy t-78 turbo/ manifold mount and partial downpipe. The more I look at 86/87 upgrade costs the more I consider putting that turbo on an LS1 or 350 block.
mY ISSUES I want to keep the air(ac) / and get the car into low 12's and perform such that the car could be driven in a high speed event with no worries that the hot air downpipe will burst the car into flames. Has anyone pioneered a bracket to mount the hot air accessories on the driver side? This would make it feasable to make a custom header and run a turbo in the 86/87 location provided electric fans are there, intercool it and flow into stock or near stock 84 location via custom piping. And yes I have seen the post where the guy rotated a stock hot air turbo and intercooled it. My concern is all the plastic and piping and turbo not in line of cooling air. Yes , I KNOW ITS A DEAD HORSE! Just questions to those who have been there.
Question Alky. How safe and costly is this on a daily driven hard car. Costly as in per mile? Still doesnt address heat issue though with factory air box in way.
Any of you running an aftermarket under dash air system? I could see that that would free up space for hotair setup? If you are how do you like it? Did you have to make irreversible mods?
i WILL leave it at that for now.
BRAD_PADGETT
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The downpipe yoy are describing is the stock one. It is actually a double pipe with only 2 inches inner diameter. Very restrictive. I am working on a three inch which eliminates the turbo elbow and keeps eveything in its original place. The Akly system is around $600 and totally safe and works. My car should make the mid twelves once I put on the 3 inch downpipe and a pair of sticky tires. Brad
