Upgrade suggestions

[neilb]

Hello everyone, its been a long time since Ive posted on this board about my turbo buick swapped camaro. Ive been enjoying driving it for a few years now, and due to some body rot issues I'm swapping the motor over to my 1984 camaro. Since the motor will be out, I want to do some minor performance improvements. Im not sure what my next step should be, or where my weak link is. My setup currently consists of:

0.030" bored 109 block
comp cams 212/212
Turbonetics Cpte 60 turbo
"EBay" headers
LT1 MAF and translator
42# injectors
Turbo Tweak chip
FMIC
2400rpm stall converter
3.42 gears with posi
700r4 trans with adaptor plate and TCI shift kit

So far I've ordered the parts needed to have functioning a/c, a 3" downpipe with external wastegate for a GN that I will modify to fit, a GN1 turbo oil feed line with inline filter, and a stock location intercooler, and a scanmaster.

I feel my torque converter is a weak link and possibly the 42# injectors. I decided to get rid of the FMIC because I want to limit the amount of trimming and mods to the body.

Any suggestions on what my next step should be would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[corsair231]

I think you are on the right track with a converter. Another 400 to 600 rpm and spool up should be almost instant with your turbo. I don't think injectors are a problem at this point especially on 93 octane. You probably can't turn the boost up enough to max out the airflow with out serious knock and sorry, stepping back to a SLIC will probably make it worse. With my Dutt neck SLIC and my TE60 I could only run about 17 psi on 93 which was on the low side of the map. The turbo was no where near peak efficiency. I think you should take a serious look at alcohol injection. It is an expensive mod but it allows you to turn it up and let the turbo run where it is happier. In addition to the anti-knock benefits alky is also a fuel so it adds a little cushion to prevent a too lean condition. With my set up I run about 24 psi with no knock or fueling issues. Of course larger injectors will give you room to grow in the future but I don't think your setup requires them just yet. More injector will not stop detonation knock. Alky will.

 

[dank GN]

I had the same setup as you with same cam and turbo and I agree with corsair231 alky was one of the best upgrades I did at that time in my build . There is nothing like turning the alky on and the boost to 25-26lbs and letting her eat . Get some slicks , launch with some decent boost and mid - low 11s should be pretty easy

 

[Jerryl]

My take :
I cringe every time alky is mentioned as a fuel sumpliment. Alhough there is merrit, fuel supply should not be done by chance.
The benefit of alky has been proven but the original intent was not to supply fuel for an inadequate fuel system.

To get more power, there has to be an increase in mass flow or cyl pressure. This can be done in combination of boost/rpm/CR.

IMO, the converter is the last thing to change. Really need get close to the final tune and data log to make an informed decision.

Petsonally, "I" would contact Bison because he is honest and knows what works in a combo.

 

[neilb]

Thanks for everyone's input! Alcohol injection has crossed my mind and I wondered if it would help the slic with cooling the intake charge. I am a little surprised that you guys feel the injectors are ok, I was expecting them to be an issue. With my current setup I was running 18# boost on 94 octane (still available at certain Sunoco stations around here). I have no idea if it was experiencing any knock as I didnt have anything to read knock retarded. Im looking forward to playing around with the scanmaster. The turbo lag was pretty brutal with the current setup and I felt the downpipe and converter were the issues. From what I understand a 2800 to 3000 stall would be ideal for the te60. I am also currently running a factory style dynomax cat back system but want to step up to a mufflex 4" system to further reduce back pressure.

 

[turbo89]

Thanks for everyone's input! Alcohol injection has crossed my mind and I wondered if it would help the slic with cooling the intake charge. I am a little surprised that you guys feel the injectors are ok, I was expecting them to be an issue. With my current setup I was running 18# boost on 94 octane (still available at certain Sunoco stations around here). I have no idea if it was experiencing any knock as I didnt have anything to read knock retarded. Im looking forward to playing around with the scanmaster. The turbo lag was pretty brutal with the current setup and I felt the downpipe and converter were the issues. From what I understand a 2800 to 3000 stall would be ideal for the te60. I am also currently running a factory style dynomax cat back system but want to step up to a mufflex 4" system to further reduce back pressure.

The limitation in your setup isn't the injector at this point .. its the fuel you are forcing yourself to use .. that's what limits your current setup ..
What part of the country are you in ? IF E85 is available goto that with appropriate mods .. if not as the others suggested get a ALKY CONTROL kit and turn it up.
Shouldn't have any issues running BOTTOM 11's with the setup you have as long as you can tune. and give it the proper fuel quality or alky

 

[Jerryl]

Agree with turbo89 BUT;
Whatever you do . . . And before you turn it up, make sure you have a way to monitor KR.

 

[neilb]

The limitation in your setup isn't the injector at this point .. its the fuel you are forcing yourself to use .. that's what limits your current setup ..
What part of the country are you in ? IF E85 is available goto that with appropriate mods .. if not as the others suggested get a ALKY CONTROL kit and turn it up.
Shouldn't have any issues running BOTTOM 11's with the setup you have as long as you can tune. and give it the proper fuel quality or alky

I live in Canada, and to be honest I have no idea if E85 is available anywhere near me. All the pumps say "may contain up to 10% ethanol", but just offer the usual 87,89,92,94. Alky injection is something I need to look into closer. Is there a source for alky tuning basics to read? The tuning is a bit daunting but certainly not outside my skill level, at this point its really the cost of the kits that's holding me back. A $600 usd kit will cost me nearly $1000 cad with the current exchange rate, and I havent found any Canadian turbo buick part dealers.

 

[turbo89]

I live in Canada, and to be honest I have no idea if E85 is available anywhere near me. All the pumps say "may contain up to 10% ethanol", but just offer the usual 87,89,92,94. Alky injection is something I need to look into closer. Is there a source for alky tuning basics to read? The tuning is a bit daunting but certainly not outside my skill level, at this point its really the cost of the kits that's holding me back. A $600 usd kit will cost me nearly $1000 cad with the current exchange rate, and I havent found any Canadian turbo buick part dealers.

if your interested in running ALKY and need information all you need to know is .. ALKY CONTROL !

Give Julio a call .. he will set you up with everything you need ..

 

[corsair231]

if your interested in running ALKY and need information all you need to know is .. ALKY CONTROL !

Give Julio a call .. he will set you up with everything you need ..

Julio is a great guy and cut his teeth on a turbo trans am and the LC2. Unlike most of the companies, he specializes in Buick turbos. I'm sure he can set you up with something that is just about plug and play. Let Turbo Tweak burn you a chip for your combo. Get the Scanmaster to monitor O2 and knock and you will be well on your way to a killer street tune. There is also a section on here with a lot of information on alky.

It is expensive to get started but unlike E85, it does not tie you to having to hunt for a place that has alky at the pump. Alky injection is an on demand system. You can cruise around all day and if you stay out of boost you won't use a drop. (Of course with a LC2 set on kill, that is a hard thing to do.)

 

[V6sleeper]

In addition to the fuel issues, Converter should be changed to a quality 9.5" true 2800/3000 stall.. (I don't want to get into manufacturer debate) ,..
You have to get air to the intercooler some how, slic might work better because of the scoop but it might scrap the ground in a Camaro,

Your Ebay headers are probably hurting spool time ,find some stock ones. 42#ers aren't terrible but their dated...go with flow matched 60s

700r4 will eventually give you problems once you start making boost/power better with a 2004r.
And alky alky alky.......

 

[Mr.Spool]

Alky injection is something I need to look into closer. Is there a source for alky tuning basics to read?

there is a sticky in the alky section on tuning the alkycontrol kit.

 

[Mr.Spool]

The tuning is a bit daunting but certainly not outside my skill level, at this point its really the cost of the kits that's holding me back. A $600 usd kit will cost me nearly $1000 cad with the current exchange rate,

I will say this you can throw all the parts that you want at the car,but the tune is where the real power and longevity exists.

 

[Mr.Spool]

Im not sure what my next step should be, or where my weak link is.

tune,alkycontrol,built trans and a good converter.having the heads ported,more injector,bigger turbo.

 

[neilb]

Thanks for all the input! I think my plan is to get a quality converter and setup the tune with the SLIC and the new 3" downpipe and wastegate and see how the lag is, and see where the intake temps are sitting and go from there. I think from there, I'd be ready to take the step to alky. I think having the scanmaster to monitor things more closely now will really help with the tuning. Ive been using TunerproRT with mixed results. I also have access to a Snap on scanner, but I cant use it for long periods of time.

 

[neilb]

Does anyone know if a converter designed for the 2004r fits a 700r4? I think I read somewhere they are the same spline size.

 

[corsair231]

IIRC it is only the first couple of years of 700r4 that are the same. The later heavier duty models were different. Not sure which years worked or how to tell them apart though.

 

[neilb]

IIRC it is only the first couple of years of 700r4 that are the same. The later heavier duty models were different. Not sure which years worked or how to tell them apart though.

Ok thanks. I'll have to do some research on that. Hughs converters quoted me around $700 for a custom converter for my setup. Not sure if thats reasonable or not.

 

[IrvJr]

With you being .030 over, bigger cam and a 60 series turbo you really should be running at LEAST 50lb inj. I was running a PT54, 210/210 roller and .030 over and was maxing out the duty cycle on my inj and switched to 60's. I also agree to more stall.

 

[neilb]

With you being .030 over, bigger cam and a 60 series turbo you really should be running at LEAST 50lb inj. I was running a PT54, 210/210 roller and .030 over and was maxing out the duty cycle on my inj and switched to 60's. I also agree to more stall.

The duty cycle of the 42# is why I was concerned with them. Does the scanmaster 2.1 display injector duty cycle? I have the powerlogger chip installed in my scanmaster ,so I will get the powerlogger at some point in the near future. Also, any recommendations for an external fuel pump? I want to run an external due to the difficulty in dropping the fuel tanks in a F body, and will allow me to retain the carb style fuel pickup and sending unit.