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V6 Ignition Guru Needed

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When measuring resistace with your meter, first thing to do is to touch the meter leads together to see how much "inherited" resistance the meter has along with the 2 leads----- should measure from 0.2 to maybe 0.6 OHMS.(not all are the same---I use a Fluke 77 AN---- but should be close). Then measure the resistance of the wiring from point to point. Let's say when you touched the meter leads together and it showed .6 OHMS and then you measured the resistance of the wire and it showed 1 OHM, then the total resistance of the actual wire would be .4 OHMS when taking this measurement. Most digital meters I've used in the past shows a reading of "O.L" when measuring a Circuit that is "open". About continuity---- it's kind of like a resistance check---- it verifies that a circuit has no "opens". A test light that checks continuity is probably the best for this type of check, unless your digital meter also checks it---- most do and has an audio "BEEP", that allows you to check for continuity without having to always look at the meter. Hope this helps.
 
Yes it does help. I had already checked the circuit with a test light, and it would not light. But what I don't understand is, if the test light won't light, and the digital volt meter wired in line with 12 volts off the battery, only shows .01 volts, when doing a continuity test, and the resistance check shows a constant 1., why did I get a reading of 4.3 volts when I checked this circuit at ECM terminal "A-11" with the engine cranking and a digital volt meter connected between "A-11" and ground? I really don't understand if the circuit is open why I would get any reading. Thanks again for all of your help!!!
 
Try this. This is a very comprehensive test procedure written up by Jim Testa on another thread a couple of days ago. It sounds to me if you are doing a resistance check and testing from "A-11" on the ECM to Pin J of the ignition module and getting a reading of 1 OHM of resistance, then the wirng looks okay to me. As you'll see in Jim's procedure you'll need a logic probe--- got 1 today from radio shack here in NC for $18, so TN shouldn't be much different in pricing. The probe will allow you to see pulses from the procedure that will verify proper functionality of the different components:
1.5) Verify 12v on pin M, pink/black wire coming from CCCI fuse.

2) At pin G of the ignition module, a dark green wire, backprobe with the logic probe and have a helper crank the car. If the logic probe blinks, the crank sensor is good. If no blink, then check for 12v at pin F, which is a gry/red wire. If you have 12v, verify a ground on pin H. If ground is good and you have 12v, then the crank sensor is bad. If you dont have 12v on pin F, the module is bad or the CCCI fuse is bad (Or a wiring problem between the fuse and module of course.)

If you have crank signal but no spark, the module is bad.

If you have crank signal, go to next step.

3) Using your logic probe, we'll check for cam sensor signal. Probe pin K, light blue wire and have a helper crank the car. Mind you the light will only blink every TWO revolutions. Let it spin a couple times to make sure the sensor hits every time and that its not flaky. If you have no puilse, verify 12v on terminal M, gray/red wire, and gnd on term L, black wire. If either is missing, the module is bad, or the CCCI fuse is blown (or the feed wire is open).

I doubt its the cam sensor because like I said, the ECM will NOT cause a no spark condition.

I think by now you will have found the problem, but if you want to go on...lets say you have ckp and cmp signal coming into the module. Now were gonna check it coming out.

Terminal C, a ppl/wht wire is ckp hi and is the signal used by the ECM. Backprobe this wire with your logic probe. Have a helper crank the car and look for blinky-blink. If no blinky-blink, then the module is bad. If blinky-blink, go to ECM pin B5 (ppl/wht) and verify the same thing. If you got blinky there, lets check for cam signal.

Go to module pin J, yellow wire, and verify the blink every 2 revolutions. If no blink, the module is bad. If blink, go to the ECM pin A11, yellow wire. Check for the same blink every 2 revolutions. If no blink, then theres an open in that wire between the ECM and module. If you got blinky, hook up yer scanner and crank the car while watching for RPM. If no RPM reading, and you have cam and crank signal, then the ECM is bad. (It wouldnt be the ECm fuse or power feed, cuz you have a data stream, proving the ECM has powered up) If you have RPM reading but no injector pulse (probe the opposite of the BROWN wires at the injectors. The brown is the power feed and the ECM grounds the injectors to fire them.) If you have RPM signal, but no pulse at the injector, then the ECM is bad.

BUT again, the ECM will NOT cause a no spark condition. So I doubt this is the case with your car.

At this point, your car should either be running, or on a tow truck destined for the junk yard as it defies logic

All the wiring diagrams you need are on gnttype. I know cuz I put them there.
 
I have the logic probe from Radio Shack, but don't know if I need to use it in "CMOS" or in "TTL/LS". What kind of circuit am I checking here on the GN? Thanks. Oh!, Radio Shack has them on sale for $9.99 here in Tenn.
 
Got your message. Sorry, but that is my work #. I work evenings here. As far as the probe goes, I'd try CMOS first because that type of circuitry can have to 15VDC reference while regular TTL uses 5VDC as a reference. I know we're only using 12VDC as a DC voltage reference on the car, but to be safe for the probe, try CMOS first, and if you don't get a pulse at a known good reference point when trying to crank the car then try TTL.

Darrell
 
I am trying to check-out this GN today using a test procedure written up by Jim Testa on another thread and posted to this thread by Darrell Jackson. STEP 1 of the test says to verify 12v on pin "M" (calling it a pink/blk stripe wire). Pin "M" on my GN is Gray/red stripe, "L" and "N" are Pink/blk stripe. "L" and "N" both have 12v's but "M" has no voltage. STEP 2 of the test says to backprobe pin "G", a dark green wire, with a logic probe. Pin "G" on my GN is black. Pin "H" is the dark green wire. Anyway the logic probe did not blink on pin "G" or pin "H", so I checked for 12v's on pin "F", and did not have any voltage. Next I checked the "CCCI" fuse in the fuse box, and it is OK. All this difference in wire colors is confussing to me, since I know very little about electrical wring anyway. But both pin "M" and pin "F" are Gray/ red stripe, and according to the test procedure are fed from the "CCCI" fuse. Does anybody know how is wire is routed from the fuse box to the ignition module? And does this sound like the trouble? I have had a problem getting a high enough voltage reading on the "A-11" terminal, at the ECM, so today I also ran a jumper wire from pin "J" to "A-11" to get the voltage up at that point to see if the car would start, but it did not help. Thanks for any help!!!!
 
I am trying to check-out this GN today using a test procedure written up by Jim Testa on another thread and posted to this thread by Darrell Jackson. STEP 1 of the test says to verify 12v on pin "M" (calling it a pink/blk stripe wire). Pin "M" on my GN is Gray/red stripe, "L" and "N" are Pink/blk stripe. "L" and "N" both have 12v's but "M" has no voltage. STEP 2 of the test says to backprobe pin "G", a dark green wire, with a logic probe. Pin "G" on my GN is black. Pin "H" is the dark green wire. Anyway the logic probe did not blink on pin "G" or pin "H", so I checked for 12v's on pin "F", and did not have any voltage. Next I checked the "CCCI" fuse in the fuse box, and it is OK. All this difference in wire colors is confussing to me, since I know very little about electrical wring anyway. But both pin "M" and pin "F" are Gray/ red stripe, and according to the test procedure are fed from the "CCCI" fuse. Does anybody know how is wire is routed from the fuse box to the ignition module? And does this sound like the trouble? I have had a problem getting a high enough voltage reading on the "A-11" terminal, at the ECM, so today I also ran a jumper wire from pin "J" to "A-11" to get the voltage up at that point to see if the car would start, but it did not help. Thanks for any help!!!!
 
Oops! I sent that twice. If the wire from the fuse block to the ignition module is bad, would it be best to replace the engine compartment wiring harness?
 
Tom,

how are you doing. It looks like you are 1 pin off. By that I mean, the pins are alphabetically listed A-G on one side, then are listed H-P on the other side, with no pin listed for the letters I or O. So, it looks like you measured L(which is a ground) and measured it for M(incoming 12VDC), and N would have 12VDC anyway because it is the source voltage for the CAM sensor. It looks like then that you measured P(Input 12VDC to ECM) for N. this is how the connector is labled: P N M L K J H space G F E D C B A.

Pin H and L are both grounds, therefore, should be black. H is ground for the Crank sensor and as above L is ground for the Cam sensor. Pin F is 12VDC for the crank sensor, N is 12VDC for the Cam sensor. Pin G is the signal for Crank, Pin K is signal for Cam. Both of these signals go through buffer/amps in the coil to get "cleaned" up, then go to the ECM through Pins C for the crank and pin J for the CAM.

Darrell
 
OH! I know I've looked at that factory service manual many times but .... I don't know, I just had it in my mind that it was "A" through "N". No wonder I could not get a ohm reading when I checked "J" to "A-11", or the test light to light on that same circuit. I will re-check all of this today an make another post later. Thanks again Darrell!!!!!!! You must have spent alot of time trying to figure out what I had done.
 
I did try to re-check the test (posted on another thread by Jim Testa) I had run wrong on the GN. Step 1... I do have 12v's on pin M, and it is a pink/black wire. Step 2... pin G is a black wire not dark green as stated in Jim"s test. The logic probe does not blink when backprobing pin G. I tried checking pin G on another GN (that runs fine) with the logic probe and it did not flash either. Since it did not flash I checked for 12v's on pin F. I showed no voltage on pin F, I also showed no voltage on pin F on the GN that runs fine. The test says it is either the module or CCCI fuse, but the fuse is good and I have tried 3 modules on the car, the other 2 from running GN's. I'm really lost....even the GN that runs doesn't check out right. I also used the logic probe to check for injector opperation by backprobing the injector harness, and the logic probe blinked as the engine was cranked over.
Thanks in advance for all of your help!!!!
 
Tom,

where did you connect the positive and negative leads of the logic probe when you back probed the connector pin G.

Darrell
 
Sorry, my diagram shows pin F as gry/red

The module gets power from 2 places. The CCI fuse and the ECM/IGN fuse. I dont know which it uses to power the ckp/cmp sensors.

If you dont have power on pin F, and both of the power sources are feeding the module, then I dont know what to tell you.

Wiring diagram is:

http://www.turbojim.com:231/jim/module.jpg
 
After sleeping last night I think I know where I made another mistake. I think I need to probe pin G while it is connected to the ignition module. I had it disconnected when I tried it yesterday. I think you and I talked about this Darrell. Will post new results soon. THANKS again and again !!!!! I might know a little more about electrical circuits when this is all through.
 
Originally posted by COPO TOM
After sleeping last night I think I know where I made another mistake. I think I need to probe pin G while it is connected to the ignition module. I had it disconnected when I tried it yesterday. I think you and I talked about this Darrell. Will post new results soon. THANKS again and again !!!!! I might know a little more about electrical circuits when this is all through.

heheheh..ummm...considering the module feeds power to the ckp/cmp by sending theign/batt feeds to them, yes, I'd haveta say if the plug was unplugged in your hand, you wouldnt have 12v on either :)

Yes, generally, circuit tests are done with the circuit connected and loaded (operating) unless otherwise specified.
 
Yeah, when taking these checks do have the connector connected. By the diagram I have at home, it looks like the sensors get the 12VDC reference from ignition power at PIN P. It might not be correct, but that is what my scats are leading me to believe. Thanks for coming into this thread to help Jim.

Darrell
 
Well I don't know what happened, but I got the GN running by buying a new ignition module and installing it. Why the car did not run when I took the ignition module coil pack off of another car, I do not know. Does not make any sense to me. But I want to thank each of you that helped me with this problem! Darrell and Jim were both GREAT!!!!!!
 
Good job, Tom. Glad I could help. If you ever need any more help with an electrical issue, let me know.

Darrell Jackson
'87 Stock GN
 
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