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vacuum brakes

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Turboaddict

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I am thinking of converting to vacuum brakes in the future. Some people have good luck with it and some don't. What possible problems has anyone experienced with their vacuum brakes?
 
I've never been able to get a real solid brake pedal with either the vacuum brakes or the Powermonster. I haven't had any master cylinder problems though.
Keith
 
If you cannot get a solid pedal, most likely you have air in the system. Has the iron proportioning valve been replaced withteh brass one on your car?

There should be no problem with vacuum brakes...most people that reported problems had a mechanical problem with one of the components...be sure the vacuum booster/check valve is working properly, and that you use the correct pedal. A new master cylinder is probably a wise investment.

If the above mentioned valve has not be replaced, this would be a good time to do it...

Make sure that the master cylinder is properly bled and then all four wheels... I use either a vacuum pump or simply gravity bleeding to do the wheels...
 
I tried vacuum brakes & went back to the PM.
With a daily driver, you'll have problems when pulling out into traffic from a side road. The braindead about 100 - 200" farther down the road trying to pull out into traffic with a SUV or an "economy" vehicle will also pull out because you did. In about 100' you'll be doing better than 45mph & have maximum boost when you suddenly notice the braindead idiot now has blocked the road in front of you. Since you are at maximum boost, you'll have no vacuum to enable the vacuum brake booster to function.
Another problem I encountered with 4 different vacuum brake boost units, was they all developed leaky diaphrams (they were lifetime rebuilds). The leaks would constantly vary due to the use of the brakes moving the diaphram. The leaks in effect made setting the IAC impossible. My last unit was leaking so bad the engine idled at 2k, which on the highway in OD was 70mph. It also would not idle when encountering a stop lighr (RED LIGHT), which caused the engine to die at all of them - remember with a bad vacuum leak in the booster, you ( well I did) need both feet to hold the brake.
I was working on a vacuum booster pump to circumvent the first problem, but gave up on the leaking diaphrams.
Third problem was cost: I spent $50 for th junkyard parts, $50 for a rebuilt master cylinder, $90 for a rebuilt vacuum boost unit, & since Casper hadn't come out yet with the aluminum vacuum block, another $70 for a TA vacuum block.
The lifetime warranty PM cost $199.
LOL
 
Originally posted by Roger
I tried vacuum brakes & went back to the PM.
With a daily driver, you'll have problems when pulling out into traffic from a side road. The braindead about 100 - 200" farther down the road trying to pull out into traffic with a SUV or an "economy" vehicle will also pull out because you did. In about 100' you'll be doing better than 45mph & have maximum boost when you suddenly notice the braindead idiot now has blocked the road in front of you. Since you are at maximum boost, you'll have no vacuum to enable the vacuum brake booster to function.
LOL

I hate to be obnoxious and disagree but this is simply bad information. There is absolutely no reason for there to be no vaccum when you need it. The booster should store enuf vacuum for more than one stop. The system does not depend upon current vacuum supply but is designed to store it. I have two Regals with vacuum conversions as well as an Elky with turbo power and vacuum brakes and all have worked very well from three to six years.

Every TTA came with vacuum brakes and none of them exhibit the above behavior either. I cannot explain your problems with vacuum boosters other than you must have bought a lousy brand of rebuilts. You might have done better to go to the junk yard and pull an original. The vacuum booster on my '69 Camaro is original and still working perfectly. It is the most reliable braking system designed to date.

Your experiences are not typical and must be due to faulty equipment. :)
 
I converted to vacuum brakes 6 years ago, when the powermaster failed going down a hill on a freeway off-ramp. Luckily there were no cars ahead, and the off-ramp leveled out.

I haven't looked back since.
 
Steve is 100% correct.. My vacuum conversion has worked perfect for 6 years.. If there was a safety problem with the turbo and having no vacuum, do you think GM would have installed it on the 89 TTA?? no.
If you have properly working master cylinder, booster and no air in the lines the car will stop perfectly with vacuum brakes.
 
i changed mine to vacuum and had a few problems. igot it off a 87 monte carlo. the engine harness gets pushed down from the vacuum booster causing the harness to touch the shift lever when in gear. i just wrapped the harness real good. also my front brake lines touch the power steering resevoir.
 
Converted to vacuum when my GN had about 10,000 miles on it after hearing horror stories of brake failures with the PM. Had a friend almost lose his GN when the PM crapped out. I converted shortly thereafter, he still has it on his car, go figure! It is just one last thing to worry about. I bought all new GM parts for mine, don't like junkyard parts!
 
So, what exactly happens when the PM craps out? Do you lose the brakes completely or does it just work like manual brakes?

Wondering if I should convert mine, but the car only has 29K miles.

Steve
 
Originally posted by Black Box
So, what exactly happens when the PM craps out? Do you lose the brakes completely or does it just work like manual brakes?

Wondering if I should convert mine, but the car only has 29K miles.

Steve
When mine crapped out it felt almost like when the master cylinder goes out, brakes went to the floor and very little stopping power. Be sure you react fast with the emergency brake. Mine was still under factory warranty when it happened about 10 years ago. Still have the PM they replaced it with, but will convert to vac when the time and $$ permit :)
Oh yea, my car only had about 25k-30k miles on it when it went.
 
Many modes of failure, different severities.

Worst one is like very very very very hard manual brakes. :eek:

"There should be no problem with vacuum brakes...most people that reported problems had a mechanical problem with one of the components..."

I think this applies to the Powermaster system as well.... ;) :D

Only downside is originality on a show car I guess.....

Easy to install the Powermaster systems from the parts stores if you listen to Steve W.'s advise on the install and brake bleeding information. :)
 
What would a reasonable cost for the vacuum conversion be if you took it to a garage that specialized in turbo regals? GN sitting in the garage with a red brake light!

Thanks
John

87GN nothing but $$$$
99GS nothing but stock
 
I converted mine over to vacuum last year and from a driving standpoint you can't tell and difference. My pm started blowing fuses even though it had a new GM motor and pump. My car is too nice to take chances like this. With a pm, you never know what can happen around the next corner. When a fuse blows, the pedal feels like cement and doesn't do a thing, not a nice feeling. The brakes should have been vacuum right from the start.
 
by using a junkyard booster/pedal and a new master cylinder, I don't see why a shop who is familier with this conversion can't do it for under $350 tops. My local TR mechanic did that exact conversion last month for a friend of mine and he charged $300.


Originally posted by 99GS
What would a reasonable cost for the vacuum conversion be if you took it to a garage that specialized in turbo regals? GN sitting in the garage with a red brake light!

Thanks
John

87GN nothing but $$$$
99GS nothing but stock
 
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