vicious6
Turbo Regal Obsessed
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
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- 2,787
Well, I knew it was coming...
- Thread starter vicious6
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gnturboray
Why me??
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2002
- Messages
- 872
If they lose those two giants they might as well fold it up.
I don't understand Pontiac being pushed out. They have a lot of good sellers, Grand Am, Grand Prix, and Vibe all seem to be good sellers and fairly nice cars compared to other brands.
With the demise of the Trans Am/\camaro, what did GM expect, they just handed Ford tens of thousands of sales of the Mustang by not competing to build SUVs instead with raising gas prices...what a brillant move from the higher ups...such morons.
Anyway, I was hoping to get a look at the new Solistice in person some time, looks like it could be a cool car with a little more powerful motor.
With the demise of the Trans Am/\camaro, what did GM expect, they just handed Ford tens of thousands of sales of the Mustang by not competing to build SUVs instead with raising gas prices...what a brillant move from the higher ups...such morons.
Anyway, I was hoping to get a look at the new Solistice in person some time, looks like it could be a cool car with a little more powerful motor.
if they cancel pontiac, gm will be shooting them selves in the foot sicne the GTO is the only thing thats in the same price and performance level as the mustang that seems to be selling like hotcakes now.
i hate to say it, but i think buick might be the one to go.
i hate to say it, but i think buick might be the one to go.
Nothing against foreign cars, but when I see GM losing marketshare to Toyota, it really pisses me off. I grew up in the Gen-X, "German and Jap car's are the best, blah blah blah"generation, and have owned BMW's ,Volvo's and Lexus's, but the older I get the more I realize that my GMC truck is twice the vehicle any of those cars were.
i dont know either. a guy i used to work with wanted a new coupe and he was looking at the G35 because he thought it was sporty and fast. i told him to go drive a gto and he would change his mind. he didnt want a gto because it didnt look snotty enough for him. so he ended up with a is300. i just dont understand it!
i would take a GTO anyday over a 3 series bmw, g35, is300, or anything else out there in that price range.
as for 4 door cars in the 40-50K range, you arent going to beat the CTS-V with anything! its a 4 door vette basicly!
gm isnt doing a good job appealing to the younger 20's market these days. back in the late 80's the IROC, GN, 442, and Monte SS were the cars to have. yes there were alot of fox body stangs out there, but when you put stangs up against all of GM's late 80's muscle, they had the market share!
the late 90's early 2000's the F-Body was the hot car to have and the mustang was junk. just another example
i would take a GTO anyday over a 3 series bmw, g35, is300, or anything else out there in that price range.
as for 4 door cars in the 40-50K range, you arent going to beat the CTS-V with anything! its a 4 door vette basicly!
gm isnt doing a good job appealing to the younger 20's market these days. back in the late 80's the IROC, GN, 442, and Monte SS were the cars to have. yes there were alot of fox body stangs out there, but when you put stangs up against all of GM's late 80's muscle, they had the market share!
the late 90's early 2000's the F-Body was the hot car to have and the mustang was junk. just another example
It doesnt really matter what you make, it matters how you market it
GM is so old and established that everyone has a preconcieved notion about a GM car x y or z. If they dont do anything to change that(meaning some form of marketing) the best they can do is make the best dang version possible of that preconcieved notion people have
GM is so old and established that everyone has a preconcieved notion about a GM car x y or z. If they dont do anything to change that(meaning some form of marketing) the best they can do is make the best dang version possible of that preconcieved notion people have
I think Pablo's right. They still aren't up to Japanese quality, but the quality seems to be on the rise. There are good GM cars being made and if you look at it from a objective point of view most aren't any worse looking than the Japanese. They don't sell as well and in large part it's image. It takes a lot to change that.
Vibe isn't a Pontiac, but that's not the point...
I hate to say it, but the Vibe isn't a Pontiac, it's made by Toyota. Take a look at the Matrix some time. Pontiac buys them form Toyota and changes the body just a bit and calls it a Pontiac but it's still a Toyota. To me, GM messed up a long time ago. Cadillac is supposed to be their top of the line, Buick next, then Pontiac, and last is Chevy. They are trying to make the Buick’s too much like Cadillac’s, and Pontiacs too much like Chevy’s. If they are going to try and keep all four lines, they need to start marketing them better. I think they would be better with three myself; but keep the middle of the road just that. Market the Cadillac’s towards the upper class that has money to compete with BMW, Mercedes, and other luxury lines. Keep the Buick’s or Pontiacs (which ever they keep) marketed towards the middle class, middle-aged people. And last but not least, Chevy should stay geared towards the value class cars or "younger" generation. Leave the trucks and SUVs to GMC. Of course this is a huge generalization, but you get the point. Just my 2 cents.
I hate to say it, but the Vibe isn't a Pontiac, it's made by Toyota. Take a look at the Matrix some time. Pontiac buys them form Toyota and changes the body just a bit and calls it a Pontiac but it's still a Toyota. To me, GM messed up a long time ago. Cadillac is supposed to be their top of the line, Buick next, then Pontiac, and last is Chevy. They are trying to make the Buick’s too much like Cadillac’s, and Pontiacs too much like Chevy’s. If they are going to try and keep all four lines, they need to start marketing them better. I think they would be better with three myself; but keep the middle of the road just that. Market the Cadillac’s towards the upper class that has money to compete with BMW, Mercedes, and other luxury lines. Keep the Buick’s or Pontiacs (which ever they keep) marketed towards the middle class, middle-aged people. And last but not least, Chevy should stay geared towards the value class cars or "younger" generation. Leave the trucks and SUVs to GMC. Of course this is a huge generalization, but you get the point. Just my 2 cents.
GM, Ford and Dodge have made great strides to meet or exceed foreign auto makers fit and finish. The problem is they always seem to pull some hair brain idea out of no where. Like take the law suits instead of fixing the problem or “shred documents”. (Ex: Ford/Firestone pointing of fingers, GM and Dodge not owning up to the paint flaking off mess) Those business practices do not sit well with the American consumer or the surviving family members of the deceased. These images are what stick in consumer’s minds, no thanks to Dateline.
Then there is GM’s designs…. Come on…. the Aztec, the Avalanche, the Malibu, and the Cavalier (Ooops! my bad they call it the Cobalt now). Ugly, ugly, ugly. Not to mention issues like $40K for an SSR. All classic stupid business decisions by GM IMO.
And why do American auto makers tout they model “European Design”, what ever happen to “American Design”?
Don’t get me wrong Ford and Dodge have followed in the same footsteps as GM, but as of late they are trying to change. Just look at Ford and Dodge’s new image… Steve McQueen Mustangs and “ITS GOT A HEMI!”
Then there is GM’s designs…. Come on…. the Aztec, the Avalanche, the Malibu, and the Cavalier (Ooops! my bad they call it the Cobalt now). Ugly, ugly, ugly. Not to mention issues like $40K for an SSR. All classic stupid business decisions by GM IMO.
And why do American auto makers tout they model “European Design”, what ever happen to “American Design”?
Don’t get me wrong Ford and Dodge have followed in the same footsteps as GM, but as of late they are trying to change. Just look at Ford and Dodge’s new image… Steve McQueen Mustangs and “ITS GOT A HEMI!”
About a month ago, I read this lengthy article about how Saturn has cost GM something like $10 billion. They're going to give it one last $3 billion effort, making Saturn just like every other division by sharing the GM platforms with Saturn. It won't be a "different kind of car company."
I can't understand why they would keep Saturn and ditch one of the other two. Because of Saturn's marketing, at least around here only women and very "feminine men" will drive one. I don't know if that's true in other parts of the country.
I can't understand why they would keep Saturn and ditch one of the other two. Because of Saturn's marketing, at least around here only women and very "feminine men" will drive one. I don't know if that's true in other parts of the country.
At first I was mad about GM possibly killing Buick, then I realized that Buick hasn't made a car I like since 1987.
GM should consider killing their Chevy car line. Other than the 'vette - which I can't afford - there is not a Chevy car that has any appeal to me. In fact the last Chevy car that I even remotely liked was the 3rd gen Camero.
I don't even consider a GM when buying a new car. When I wanted basic family transportation I looked at Nissan and Toyota and bought a Camry - a lot of car for $16,800. If I want a sports type car I would look at the Mustang - it's a good looking car with reasonable performance.
GM should consider killing their Chevy car line. Other than the 'vette - which I can't afford - there is not a Chevy car that has any appeal to me. In fact the last Chevy car that I even remotely liked was the 3rd gen Camero.
I don't even consider a GM when buying a new car. When I wanted basic family transportation I looked at Nissan and Toyota and bought a Camry - a lot of car for $16,800. If I want a sports type car I would look at the Mustang - it's a good looking car with reasonable performance.
GM is definitely in need of some serious brand makeover.
This is all a result of the homogenization of their various lineups. This is what happens when you build the same car and stick a Buick, Pontiac or Oldsmobile badge on it and expect people to think it is a different car. Brand identity is dead within GM. Sure the Buick GN and T-Type looked like the other g-body cars, but their powerplants were completely different. That gave them some way to differentiate, but why bother right? Cut costs, make them all the same and put a different badge on them and nobody will notice.
What a bunch of crap. Kill Buick already, it's been on life support for decades now.
This is all a result of the homogenization of their various lineups. This is what happens when you build the same car and stick a Buick, Pontiac or Oldsmobile badge on it and expect people to think it is a different car. Brand identity is dead within GM. Sure the Buick GN and T-Type looked like the other g-body cars, but their powerplants were completely different. That gave them some way to differentiate, but why bother right? Cut costs, make them all the same and put a different badge on them and nobody will notice.
What a bunch of crap. Kill Buick already, it's been on life support for decades now.
When I found out that Buick would be offering "trucks", I knew the writing was one the wall. They now have 3 trucks in the lineup (Rainier, Terraza, Rendezvouz) and only two cars at the moment. The dropped the entry-level Century and replaced it with the LaCrosse which also conveniently replaced the Regal (R.I.P.). The LeSabre and Park Ave are both history and are to be replaced with the Lucerne.
Do the math.......2 sedans and 3 trucks. It's been nice knowing ya!
Do the math.......2 sedans and 3 trucks. It's been nice knowing ya!
Data is right on the money. Brand identity is dead within GM. Cadillac is doing well because they have their own body style and most importantly their own powerplants. Unless Pontiac and Buick start sporting their own motors again, they will eventually both be cut due to profit losses.
For what it is worth, my owner was out to dinner last night until 11.30pm with Bob Lutz VP of GM. He told my owner that the press totally mis quoted him and this is NOT FACT. That is from the horses mouth, therefore it will be interesting to see how it plays out. 
NJturbo:to start out with, if you're into that kinky stuff more power to ya this is a family forum though. 
GM needs to give up these bahemoth trucks, and start doing what the Japanese did a long time ago; make sensible cars. IMO the cobalt is a good move, it's an ecconobox and it rounds out the line well.
The SSR is stupid as hell, "sporty" looking and no balls to back it up for a 4500 pound ride. It's a joke. Build a new turbo AWD Canyon and call it a "Syclone." Sell it for 20K less then the SRT-10 and 10K less then the SSR, wham bam you've got something that'd sell. GMC's failure back then was they were too far ahead of the times, a fast truck would sell.
Buick needs to dump the trucks and get a good RWD car platform instead of the all FWD crap When was the last time Buick had an RWD car? 96 with the Roadmaster?
Get a Zeta based car like the GTO, rework the back so it's similar to a GS then add a hood bulge on the front maybe GNX style louvers and add the hi-po TT V6 that's rumored to be in the wings and wham bam, you've got a GN with dashing good looks that pays homage to Buick's V6 history and the history of near 20 years previous.
To this you round this line out with an LS7 or a 5.3L for the v8 crowd, and and a 3800 with an option of SC. It'd be a well rounded vehicle with something for the person who wanted sensibility or to go all out.
The ad campaign should be something poking fun at their old people image too, like "just because you're old doesn't mean you're dead"
This vehicle would single handedly correct two or three flaws in GM's strategy IMO; GM would have a turbo 6 again, the SC 3800 would be in a RWD platform where it could truly show it's capabilities and would give a vehicle well suited for many people.
It's been said that people drive imports as econno boxes and move up to domestics, a car like this would make that true again.
GM needs to give up these bahemoth trucks, and start doing what the Japanese did a long time ago; make sensible cars. IMO the cobalt is a good move, it's an ecconobox and it rounds out the line well.
The SSR is stupid as hell, "sporty" looking and no balls to back it up for a 4500 pound ride. It's a joke. Build a new turbo AWD Canyon and call it a "Syclone." Sell it for 20K less then the SRT-10 and 10K less then the SSR, wham bam you've got something that'd sell. GMC's failure back then was they were too far ahead of the times, a fast truck would sell.
Buick needs to dump the trucks and get a good RWD car platform instead of the all FWD crap When was the last time Buick had an RWD car? 96 with the Roadmaster?
Get a Zeta based car like the GTO, rework the back so it's similar to a GS then add a hood bulge on the front maybe GNX style louvers and add the hi-po TT V6 that's rumored to be in the wings and wham bam, you've got a GN with dashing good looks that pays homage to Buick's V6 history and the history of near 20 years previous.
To this you round this line out with an LS7 or a 5.3L for the v8 crowd, and and a 3800 with an option of SC. It'd be a well rounded vehicle with something for the person who wanted sensibility or to go all out.
The ad campaign should be something poking fun at their old people image too, like "just because you're old doesn't mean you're dead"
This vehicle would single handedly correct two or three flaws in GM's strategy IMO; GM would have a turbo 6 again, the SC 3800 would be in a RWD platform where it could truly show it's capabilities and would give a vehicle well suited for many people.
It's been said that people drive imports as econno boxes and move up to domestics, a car like this would make that true again.
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