Went to the track tonight - whine/complain

[turbojimmy]

So my brother (darkred87t) and I went to the track tonight. I was really looking to see if I could improve upon my 117.5 MPH trap speed I got last time out. Yeah, it's 30 degrees warmer than when I ran that time but I figured if I turned up the boost a little I could compensate.

We get there at 6:30 - about the time they start running. 7:45 rolls around and they're still not running. Problems with the staging beams that they can't figure out (maybe they should've checked things out long before the gates opened?). We finally get going. I'm at about 25 PSI using the same chip I used when I ran my 117 MPH trap. I heated up the MTs but obviously not enough. I got a 1.985 60' time and spun half the track. I ran a 13.7 @ 104. It was knocking and the EGT meter claims that the temp was 1890 degrees (which I find pretty hard to believe).

My brother is up next. As I come down the return lane I can see them pushing his car off the starting line. Not a good sign. Turns out he popped a brake line. They mopped up the fluid and sent him on his way. One of the next couple of cars to run was a pristine '55 Chevy that got sideways on the launch. He almost put it in the guardrail. I wonder if they did a good enough job cleaning up that brake fluid?

I was PO'd at my car but figured I'd try again. I turned the boost down and did a John Force burnout. There was so much smoke I had to wait because it was tripping the beams. I got a 1.71 60' time which felt decent but the car just wasn't pulling strong. That and it's shifting crappily (need to find the sweet spot with the TV cable and the new trans). Ran a 12.4 @ 107. A full 10 MPH off of my best. EGT was allegedly 1800 degrees.

I parked the car, collected my son and video camera from my dad and went home. The only things I've done to the car this season versus last are the FMIC, aluminum driveshaft, moser axles and new transmission. I forgot to hit the spacebar to record the last run so I have no idea WTF is going on.

I'm almost ready to sell this thing and buy something that goes reasonably quick out of the box. On pump gas. It was embarassing. Plus some sh*thead was loudly making fun of the fact that my turbo outlet was smaller than my intercooler tubing. Usually ignorant stuff like that doesn't bug me, but it bugged me. I really wanted to rip off a deep 11 second pass to shut him up, but no.

I'm going to bed.

Jim

 

[stickybones]

This hobby can be so humbling sometimes can't it Jim.

Sorry about your night. I was thinking of hitting the track tonight but decided against it because the guys I normally go racing with couldn't make it tonight...and this is first Friday this season that I think my car was actually ready to race.

There will be another time and you'll crank out another 11.xx and you'll be again.

Mike

 

[turbojimmy]

This hobby can be so humbling sometimes can't it Jim.

Sorry about your night. I was thinking of hitting the track tonight but decided against it because the guys I normally go racing with couldn't make it tonight...and this is first Friday this season that I think my car was actually ready to race.

There will be another time and you'll crank out another 11.xx and you'll be again.

Mike

Thanks Mike.

I just realized after I typed this rant that I forgot to take the 43TS plugs out of it. They're way too hot for the car. That explains the egregious knock.

I'll have to goof around with it some more.

Jim

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

List every mod, gas,timing, chip,meth ect would help.

If it was 1800, would be 1750 before lifting, surely its not that lean with that intercooler... Bet its FAT thats why she is slow, this also will show rich EGT.

I just installed a new meth controller on my car, just got it right before the last one died.
I TOO am fighting issues, but i know its FAT and needs to be leaner...

It just takes time to dial it in perfectly, ive taken some cars to the track and gained 15mph in one night with just fuel and boost....

Post back, guarantee next time to the track you will be :smile:

BW

 

[SPOOLN]

I have had a few of those nites myself, hang in there....

 

[turbojimmy]

List every mod, gas,timing, chip,meth ect would help.

If it was 1800, would be 1750 before lifting, surely its not that lean with that intercooler... Bet its FAT thats why she is slow, this also will show rich EGT.

I just installed a new meth controller on my car, just got it right before the last one died.
I TOO am fighting issues, but i know its FAT and needs to be leaner...

It just takes time to dial it in perfectly, ive taken some cars to the track and gained 15mph in one night with just fuel and boost....

Post back, guarantee next time to the track you will be :smile:

BW

It might be fat. I really have not made any substantial changes vs. last year other than the transmission. There's something weird with the trans or converter. I got a new transmission from CK and I still don't have the TV adjusted right. I exchanged some e-mail with him last night and it looks like I have the TV cable way too tight. CK put my old converter in it (my 9x11 3600 stall) and it seems a lot more loose than it did before. There might've been something wrong with my original trans for a while. With this new trans it hops off the line nicely. I never thought that converter stalled like it shoudl. But now it's like I'm running at redline the length of the track and not really pulling very hard (like the engine is out of its power band now). I can't tell if it's locking either. I had trouble with it last year, but this new trans has it locking very hard (which is nice). The chip has it lock at WOT at around 75 MPH but I didn't notice if it locked. On the second run I manually locked at about 80 MPH and it didn't do anything so I think it was already locked.

Anyway, no matter what the trans is doing it's definitely down on power. The plugs were definitely wrong. I had forgotten I put CR43TS plugs in to test a misfire problem I was having. I needed to put the NGK UR5s back in it (same plugs as my 117 MPH traps) but I forgot.

Mods are:
.040 overbore, forged pistons
P&P stock irons, port matched intake
60# injectors
Stock TB; 65mm doghouse
PT-61 (4" in/2.5 out) at 22 PSI w/ a manual boost controller
RJC FMIC
Walboro 340 hotwired
3" THDP; no cat; 3" TT exhaust

EDIT: Forgot to mention that I'm using a TurboTweak chip (same as last year) with 27/25 timing. He wrote "25-26 PSI" on it. I'm not using the stock solenoid so I had the WG manually set around there. That really seems to be the sweet spot for the chip but the engine wasn't having it last night. I backed it down to around 22 PSI and it was still knocking. I had 3 gallons of 100 octane and 5 gallons of 116 in it.

The other thing that occurred to me is that it's been awhile since I had the K&N filter off of it. It hangs below the bumper and might be dirty. If it's not getting air it might be running fat. Turbo spools decent though.

Now that I've slept on it I've decided to keep it

Jim

 

[ijames]

You said the fmic was new. If you went from a stock location to the fm you are flowing a bunch more air at the same boost, and your boost probably went up a couple psi on top of that. I bet your plugs come out bone white and you were way lean - why are you doubting your egt? Also, that 25-26 psi Eric put on the chip probably was an estimate based on your old intercooler. Turn the boost down about 5 psi or more and I bet things will be better. Then start working your way back up with fuel and boost.

 

[salvageV6]

Knocking and 1890 EGT's are probably realistic and not a good thing. :frown:

1800 could be accurate as well, when you get a direct scan run on it look for proper or similar transmission shift points as your old good runs.

And of course check those plugs as suggested.

I'd find a deserted road and do a 1/8-1/4 mile test run with d.s.

 

[turbojimmy]

The boost did go up a couple of pounds when I put the FMIC on but I turned it back. I hadn't thought about the impact of the new intercooler on the fueling in the chip. I may need to fatten it up.

I doubted the EGT because I didn't think 1900 degrees was possible without dire consequences. Car seems okay. I was doing some WOT runs today trying to get the TV cable adjusted correctly. I had a '98 octane' Extender in it though. No knock at 22 PSI.

I'll keep messing with it.

Jim

 

[turbojimmy]

Okay - I analyzed the data from my WOT testing yesterday. I do not have any DS recordings of my bad runs, but I'm pretty sure I've figured out 90% of the problem.

The transmission is new. My TV cable was broken so there is now a universal cable on it. I don't have the luxury of being able to push the tab and then open the throttle to get it close to where it needs to be. I've been tightening-tightening-tightening that cable until I had almost no adjustment left on it.

In one of my earlier posts I said the car felt like it was running at redline and not really going anywhere. It turns out that was actually the case.

Again, I don't have recordings from the track but I do have recordings after experimenting with the cable yesterday. After exchanging e-mail with CK he knew my cable was too tight. I pulled the cable WAY out (toward the radiator) and took it out for a spin.

At WOT I had a 1-2 shift at 5225 RPM (33 MPH) and a 575 RPM drop between gears. On the 2-3 it shifted at 4950 RPM (51 MPH) with a 475 RPM drop between gears. So even after this adjustment the car was running between 4475-5225 RPM. The cable was way, way tighter at the track. At the track, the RPM had to be a lot higher on both shifts. At that high RPM the converter is coupled (not slipping) and the car is out of its power band.

For WOT test 2 I took the cable out another 2 clicks toward the radiator. Now I get 1-2 at 4800 RPM (24 MPH) with a 300 RPM drop between shifts (I think - it might be as low as 175 RPM but I had a weird frame at 4500 RPM that was used in the calculation) and a 2-3 at 4900 RPM (50 MPH) and a 350 RPM drop between shifts. Target is 200 RPM drop between shifts so I'm going to go out another couple of notches.

This TV cable stuff is tricky business but I think I have it sorted out. I'm thinking that it was about 90% of my problem at the track. And so far my ignorance hasn't done any substantial damage!

Jim

 

[Quiky One]

Glad to hear it was a moderately simple fix!

Jason

 

[turbojimmy]

Glad to hear it was a moderately simple fix!

Jason

Kinda sorta. I need professional help in getting the trans to shift right. I've been goofing around with it all weekend. Can't find a happy medium between sort-of-okay WOT and sort-of-okay part-throttle shifts. My brother has the same trans in his car and it's totally different (as in rock solid shifts all the time). I'm thinking it might be my converter but I'm not sure.

Jim

 

[turbojimmy]

Okay, if anyone is interested here's what the problems were:

1) O2 sensor is falling off at WOT - shutting off like a light switch. Readings are too low to be real. I think it's the sensor itself.

2) The stator assembly in the converter is cracked the whole way across the face. Given the choice between investing another few hundred bucks in this 9x11 and moving to a better converter I chose the latter.

So hopefully with a new converter and O2 sensor I can at least get back to where I was performance-wise. Man this is an expensive hobby!

Jim

 

[Quiky One]

Expensive but fun!

Jason

 

[turbojimmy]

I got the car back from CK Performance today. I gotta say that the Vigilante converter did wonders for the car. That converter coupled with CK's transmission is an awesome combination. I don't know how long the stator in my 9x11 has been cracked nor what kind of problems that causes, but the car had gotten sluggish out of the hole and just wasn't pulling right. The Vigilante converter is tight - almost like stock - when you're just cruising around. When you nail it, it stalls immediately and the turbo spools. It's hard to explain but it's a totally different feeling versus the 9x11 (again, I'm not sure how long it was broken but I did run low-mid 11s with it last fall).

Bad news is that the car is still falling down at WOT and at high RPMs. I swapped out the O2 sensor before I drove it home but it's still misbehaving. It feels like it's running out of fuel. My fuel pressure gauge is toast (have a new one but haven't installed it) but if I were a bettin' man I'd guess that I'm running out of fuel for some reason.

So I still have some issues to sort out but the converter/transmission isn't one of them.

Jim

 

[S2V6RACER]

I suggest you get some data on your fuel system before you hurt something. Sounds like you have dodged a bullet so far.

 

[turbojimmy]

I suggest you get some data on your fuel system before you hurt something. Sounds like you have dodged a bullet so far.

Yes I should. I need to get my DirectScan back from my brother. I've been taking it easy on the car since that night at the track. I've been watching knock and am staying away from RPM/boost levels that cause it until I sort it out.

I took it to work today and something is definitely strange. The air/fuel meter I put in usually jumps all over the place (follows the O2 mV). I realize the gauge is useless, but I had an extra hole to fill. That gauge is now very steady and slow moving but does drop WAY lean when I get on it. I'm not sure if it's an indication of an electrical problem or if it's showing that I don't have enough fuel. DS shows the O2 mV drop to basically nothing and shoot back up when I let off the gas. It's most evident on the highway. If I'm cruising along and give it enough gas to unlock the converter and drop to 3rd it feels like it hit a wall - just won't go anymore. If I keep the pedal steady it does this sort of rhythmic surging. Seems like a fuel delivery issue. Fuel filter is fairly new and I haven't changed anything else since it was running decent last year.

I'm going to wire up the new FP gauge tonight and watch the pressure while I'm moving.

Jim