What am I doing wrong? Why is my car not quicker than it is?

[10SECV6]

Are you running it through the mufflers or open dump?

Through the mufflers still. I have a THDP for it with an electric cutout on it, but I haven't had time to put it on yet.

Original timing chain?

No, the timing chain has been replaced.

What others have said.......
Also, this is another indicator of a converter issue. "PTC 2,800-3,000 stall converter (stalls closer to 4,000 at the track on a set of slicks)". Jerr's slip calcs are "scary"!
A look at the rpm scan shows low rpm drop on the shifts. Can you post what they are?

Yes. Sigh...it's slipping a lot. According to the log, the rpm drops from 5,553 to 5,066 on the 1-2 shift. On the 2-3 shift, the rpm goes from 5,391 to 4,818 RPM.

I was going to say that. Hope its been changed.

Power comes from moving air and fuel. Just because you run a lot of boost doesn't mean anything. You need to work on maximizing the car on a lower boost level and try and figure out what it likes and doesn't. Arbitrarily throwing a bunch of boost doesn't solve anything but get head gaskets popped out. It has to do with back pressure. Think of blowing air through a coffee straw.

Only increase boost as the car responds to it. If not.. you'll end up with 35 psi at 12.0 time slip.

Your 60 foot needs work. Exhaust needs work. Keeping engine RPM's under 5k with a stock cam=locking converter. getting slip down(locking converter)..

Me.. install timing chain if that hasnt been done.. then down pipe, open cutout, bring boost down to 23 psi.. and play with timing and air fuel at that lower boost level. Figure out what gives the most MPH at that lower boost. This will tell you what the motor likes. Apply that knowledge to 24, 25, 26, etc PSI.. and every psi the MPH should pickup if the motor responds properly. I use the pickup speed in MPH from 1/8-1/4. If your 1/8 MPH goes up and the 1/4 doesn't respond the same.. back it down and look. At your performance level i'd say 22-23 mph pickup. So 90 in the 1/8 should be 112-113 in the 1/4

Understand leakdown and condition of motor plays a role in this. If its tired.. its tired.

The fastest stock turbo, stock long block car ran 11.37 at 116.50. 1.50 60 foot, 28x9 slicks, 28 psi 1st gear and 23-24 through the traps. 45-50 degree weather 92 octane fuel, and meth injection.

Getting that 60 down 2 tenths.. and managing rpms.. gets you there

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the write up Julio. I'll work on your suggestions. It sounds like there still may be some left in it.

The methanol setup is rock solid. Niece piece. Thanks.

 

[10SECV6]

What was going on from time frame 46.05 to about 47.8?? Looks like a ton of tire spin. Well maybe just some at 46.2. The RPM trace is doing some strange things.

You're pretty observant. I did have a little bit of wheel spin on that launch. It was the last pass of the day and it is the only log that I had saved. It spun for probably 10 feet, but on the ET Drag Bias Plys it's still pulling pretty hard while it's spinning and I don't have to lift. They hook on their own.

 

[10SECV6]

looks lean at top
you say it stalls at 4k but that log show much lower at 0psi

You're right. At 0 boost it's stalling around 2,800 rpm, so the converter is spot on for what it's rated at. On slicks and the foot brake it's seeing 4,100rpm at 15 pounds of boost, which seems like a lot of launch rpm to me.

^^^this. The car is lazy out the back. Should be 2-2.5mph faster for your eighth mph. Id have the converter tightened so it's 2200@0 and also run a taller tire. The car will spool a little slower on the street but will run quite a bit faster when launched with boost. Between both tires and converter there's probably half a second. Flash stall should be 4300 to really get the most. The engine is done at 5000rpm for the most part and most of your third gear is over that. To run really low 11's with a 44 you need quite a bit of timing and low converter slip at 5% or less.

It sounds like I either need to throw a cam in it to bring the operating range of the motor up a bit or pull the converter back out if it and send it off to be restalled. Neither are particularly appealing from a labor standpoint, but I think I'd lean towards throwing a cam in it if I'm going to have wrench time involved.

 

[10SECV6]

Has anybody locked the converter in third gear on one of the PTC converters? I believe mine is a 9" converter, but I don't remember for sure. The tech from PTC when I bought it said not to lock the converter at WOT since the friction area of the lockup clutch is not large enough to handle a wide open throttle lock. It seems like locking the converter in third would certainly help my situation.

 

[HouTX87]

A cam would probably slow you down even more with stock heads. I can't speak for PTC but I say lock the converter. You're already pushing the limits of the stock transmission.

 

[we4Mateo]

Has anybody locked the converter in third gear on one of the PTC converters? I believe mine is a 9" converter, but I don't remember for sure. The tech from PTC when I bought it said not to lock the converter at WOT since the friction area of the lockup clutch is not large enough to handle a wide open throttle lock. It seems like locking the converter in third would certainly help my situation.

At your mph, I wouldn't lock any single disc clutch TC. The multi-disk units are the only ones that withstand multiple wot lockups.

 

[we4Mateo]

I guess everything I learned over the past 27 years is out of date? I don't understand the extreme low timing just because you're running alky??
I think I'm glad I kept everything on gas. With 93 octane, 20# of boost and 21° in 1st and 2nd, and 19° in 3rd the car is quite happy and responds like an animal.
And this is street trim.
When I was racing it was a lot more radical on the timing and boost.

I guess I don't understand the street trim timing ya'll are having to run with alky.

Not out of date. It's a common misconception that more timing equals more power. Not true. You need the right timing for the fuel you are using to balance between preignition while still get the fire going quickly enough to maximize cylinder pressure. A 93/alky motor can make the same hp as a race gas motor all else equal, but do it on less timing b/c the mixture of the 93/alky doesn't take as long to burn as the race gas. So again, the right timing to maximize power is more important than the amount of timing.

 

[we4Mateo]

A cam would probably slow you down even more with stock heads. I can't speak for PTC but I say lock the converter. You're already pushing the limits of the stock transmission.

Not true. I have stock heads and my 208/208 FT Erson with minor intake port matching picked up 40hp at the tire all else equal. And locking a single disc is a bad idea at this mph. I know guys locked D5s back in the day, but things are different now with more power and guys not wanting to tear up the equipment like back in the day.

 

[HouTX87]

The converter has been in the car less than a year? Will ptc do a free reflash? I think precision used to.

 

[we4Mateo]

The converter has been in the car less than a year? Will ptc do a free reflash? I think precision used to.

Call 'em. I think they do one in 12 months. Try a taller tire though. You may want the higher stall down the road and taller tires are an easy way to load the car more and get that slip % down. What is your rpm @ 0-1psi?

 

[HouTX87]

Not true. I have stock heads and my 208/208 FT Erson with minor intake port matching picked up 40hp at the tire all else equal. And locking a single disc is a bad idea at this mph. I know guys locked D5s back in the day, but things are different now with more power and guys not wanting to tear up the equipment like back in the day.

I was thinking about guys locking D5 converters. I think I read they would hold up to maybe 100 lockups. Of course this would vary based on power level too.

 

[we4Mateo]

I was thinking about guys locking D5 converters. I think I read they would hold up to maybe 100 lockups. Of course this would vary based on power level too.

Exactly. When guys were running low 13's and a paper clip would get them into the 12s, they did it. You're ahead of that power level now by a ways.

 

[HouTX87]

What is your rpm @ 0-1psi?

You're right. At 0 boost it's stalling around 2,800 rpm, so the converter is spot on for what it's rated at. On slicks and the foot brake it's seeing 4,100rpm at 15 pounds of boost, which seems like a lot of launch rpm to me.

 

[we4Mateo]

Got it. Yeah, that's a little high for a 44. Mine stalls at 2700 @ 0-1psi and I still trap 96mph in the 1/8th with a multi-disc Vig that is supposed to be crappy when unlocked and I don't lock before the 1/8th.

 

[HouTX87]

I'm going to have to double check but I think mine stalls about 2200 @ 0psi. I'm following this thread closely since I have a similar combo and similar past e.t.s (not much track time though). I've got a custom converter from Mike Kurtz, (Century Trans in Richmond, TX). He's an old school turbo Buick guy so I hope I won't be dealing with matched converter issues soon once I get things dialed in. Don't mean to hijack the thread.

 

[we4Mateo]

I'm going to have to double check but I think mine stalls about 2200 @ 0psi. I'm following this thread closely since I have a similar combo and similar past e.t.s (not much track time though). I've got a custom converter from Mike Kurtz, (Century Trans in Richmond, TX). He's an old school turbo Buick guy so I hope I won't be dealing with matched converter issues soon once I get things dialed in. Don't mean to hijack the thread.

I think everyone is learning, so I know I don't mind the hijack. Hopefully the OP gets something out of all of this.

 

[Jerryl]

Well . . . This is my understanding . . .
Bigger tires will help, as will a cam . . . The flash stall is still too high, and bigger tires will lower rpm, resulting in increased slip on the big end. A cam will allow for higher rpm and better coupling, but . . It may also result in "driving through the converter". $ for $, Nothing will have the benefit of the proper converter.


Trying to learn here . . . .

 

[HouTX87]

Wait. What is the goal here anyway? Sounds like his cam is still in good shape. Don't replacement flat tappets have a bad reputation in our cars? Is it worth going roller with this combo? Proper break in is essential obviously but a roller conversion isn't cheap and doesn't it involve some machine work on the heads (with or without stock rockers)?

 

[Jerryl]

What am I doing wrong? I think my car should be quicker than it is with the modifications that have been done to it. . . .

Great question. I think he'd ike to be quicker.

 

[Jerryl]

Wait. What is the goal here anyway? . . . .

Good question. Not sure what happened . . . See 1 posts up. Haha.

Ok, I'm sitting on the side line to learn some more.