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Will I even need alcohol anymore with this combo?

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d0n_3d

Boost is good.
Joined
Jul 14, 2001
Messages
4,740
I'm planning major changes for my motor if you haven't already heard...planning on getting the stock heads ported and polished, 206 or 212 cam, possibly trw pistons, PT-61 turbo, 3200 stall, 57 lb injectors, etc....plan on running 25 psi of boost on the street...i've heard stories of people running 20+ psi on pump gas with such a free flowing combo...is that true and will i even need my dual nozzle alky kit? i would think i would if i want to keep it at 25 psi...opinions?
 
You will find the more air you flow, the more water/alky you will need to keep things under control.

It may be your current alky system has the capacity and you don't need any changes save for a nozzle upsize. You'll only find out once you start tuning the new setup and start approaching the upper limits.

As you tune, move carefully and its best to make one change at a time so you can backtrack if something doesnt work. But keep inching up the ladder, a little more boost, a little more alky, a little more fuel, watch the EGTs and knock.
 
Originally posted by d0n_3d
I'm planning major changes for my motor if you haven't already heard...planning on getting the stock heads ported and polished, 206 or 212 cam, possibly trw pistons, PT-61 turbo, 3200 stall, 57 lb injectors, etc....plan on running 25 psi of boost on the street...i've heard stories of people running 20+ psi on pump gas with such a free flowing combo...is that true and will i even need my dual nozzle alky kit? i would think i would if i want to keep it at 25 psi...opinions?

Ive heard it on a stock motor with the upgraded air flow pieces. Never heard it with a modded motor. Actually sincerly doubt it. Especially with a PCV hooked up, motor heat soaked from idling, etc.. Unless you unplug the knock sensor. Or maybe run it so fat and low on timing like 10 degree total.. either way it wont be fast.

You'll need alky or race gas. Isnt 25 the limit of a 61 turbo.. I mean I think the 61 is like 28 limit pre IC..so post IC at 25 its probably at the edge?? Or am I thinking a 60 turbo.

I know my 51 at 27 PSI is way past the usable limit.

Let us know if it does it...
 
????

Uh, no I hadn't heard..
What's flow have to do w/ it?? A "free flowing system" you refer to just means more fuel required. The quality of the fuel, dictated by cylinder pressure, still has to be high enough to control knock. [Regardless of how much you put in the cyl].

Like Razor said:
Or maybe run it so fat and low on timing like 10 degree total.. either way it wont be fast.
 
i am pretty sure i will be running the alky...spraying two nozzles at high pump speed should be fine...i am sure you can push the 61 turbo higher than 25 psi...there's guys that run 30+ psi with even larger turbos than that...who knows...we will see once i get everything done how much boost i can run on the street without knock...
 
Originally posted by d0n_3d
we will see once i get everything done how much boost i can run on the street without knock...

At the track launching rite before the turnon..not an issue. Well...

This is the real issue..on the street spraying high volumes of alky and not having transitional KR with a system that has a specific turnon point..

Been down this road before.. ;)
 
Originally posted by Razor
At the track launching rite before the turnon..not an issue. Well...

This is the real issue..on the street spraying high volumes of alky and not having transitional KR with a system that has a specific turnon point..

Been down this road before.. ;)

yeah yeah yeah you are trying to sell me a progressive kit aren't you?:cool: :) LOL
 
don, i see what ur saying bout the flow and crap. thats one guy NCTURBOS ran 18 psi with a big turbo (T70), heads/cam, etc and he did it on amoco 93 so i think its possible. less heat=less detonation. does it matter if he was rich? i dont think so b/c he still ran 11.0 @ 123 on slicks
 
123 MPH on 93 octane on a 6 cyl car.. wow..

I dunno..typically i'm very skeptical..was it he drove and filled up at Amoco, drove 40 miles to the track with the AC on, changed tires and ripped an 11.0 on a 3500 LB car? Having no knock retard and no fuel enhancement..in other words always drives on 93? Ya know typical street driven car. Or was the 93 added to the race gas in the tank, trailer the car in, and made the run on a lightened car?

I know of some stage motor cars that have produced similar times using a huge turbo, huge cam, and tricked out heads.

But those race cars with the money tied into them wont use but 7 dollar a gallon stuff. Whats 50 bucks in gas when you have 20 K+ into a motor?

If the time was done as I set the above conditions..hats off..better than 99 percent of the Buick population.

Not that I dont doubt, but 123 MPH is way over 500 rwhp which is 600 flywheel with an automatic. Thats a big pill on 93 octane. Especially from a small displacement motor.

Cheers..
 
btw, if you use a simple equation it makes perfect sense. 123 mph, 6 cyl, and 93 octane are the variables. 123 divided by 6 is 20.5. 20.5 times 93 is 1906.5. move the decimal two places left and you get 19.065 and he was runinng 18 psi so its close enough to make sense.
 
www.sdsefi.com's excellent Tech Pages make a statement something like "A forced induction motor's HP potential simply cannot be realized without high octane fuel." and I completely agree. Flowing more static air through your motor with the build, you may be faster on pump gas street levels, but you're still leaving a ton of power on the table until you step up to high octane whether it comes from Alcohol + Pump Gas or from Race Fuel or whatever you have. Pure 93 octane gas is still going to have a limit of what compression ratio it can handle regardless of how cold the air is. Drag racers in general running Nitrous (ice cold air) need to run higher than 93 octane once they surpass 100-150 HP shots, don't they? If they ran a big shot and the air is so cold, why can't they just run 87 octane gas? See what I'm saying.
 
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