Yank converter update

ijames

Active Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2001
I promised an update when I had more information. Brief recap - I bought a Yank GN Turbo Thruster 3000 converter with the standard carbon ceramic clutch. It stalled at about 2400 rpm so I pulled it out and sent it back. They inspected it and said it was perfect, and sent it back. I put it in, it was still 2400 stall, I drove it for 200 miles before making any passes, made 2-5 passes to verify it was still tight, drove it another 300-400 miles, suddenly it loosened up to 3500 stall. Made two passes and my normal 12.50/109/2.0 60' with 2800 stall D5 became 13.3/99.5/1.77 60', turning 5400 rpm in 3rd gear at 99.5 mph. Launch and spoolup were great but after that it was over. Put about 900-1000 miles on it total and sent it back in. They said that the fins had folded over because I was spending too long making boost on the footbrake - over 2 seconds was their definition of too long. I told them that the typical TR launch meant 5-7 seconds either building or holding boost :D. They seem serious about making a good TR converter because the owner bought a GN for driving and testing. Others had the same problem I did, and they were starting to work on a much stronger design, as well as doing repairs and spring cleaning on the new-to-them GN. That brings us up to about 5 weeks ago. Oh, they did offer a refund if I didn't want to wait on the new improved one but I told them I wanted to wait and talk with them about what they developed before they sent me anything.

Yesterday with no warning I received a new converter so I called Mike and asked what was up. This converter does not have their automatic TCC lockup under massive torque, which is one feature that had sold me on the Yank's in the first place. The clutch material is a step up from the carbon ceramic but is not quite up the Kevlar option. He assured me that it would hold up for many hundreds if not thousands of wot lockups. It is a 10" unit, not 9" - he said that they just couldn't get the fin and hub strength in a 9". Back half is all billet, and he said that the housing and fins were about twice as thick as the original design. Stall at zero boost in his car was 2900 rpm, and with boost he said it was about 200 rpm looser than a Precision "o" pump. That scares me a little because to me that means about 3200 rpm, but we will see. Efficiency above stall is supposed to be excellent, about 98% at 6000 rpm. He said that with that efficiency he just didn't see the need for the autolockup.

I hope to get it installed this week, and when I do I will report on the stall, spoolup, and driveability, and maybe get to the track on Sunday. That will get me to my fifth converter swap, and hopefully not on to my sixth if it needs to come back out yet again. We had spoken once about some compensation for that but not in our last few conversations. I don't know if they are still going to offer a somewhat beefed up version of their first converter but I know that they have sent out at least one of those to someone else whose fins bent over. He said that this converter would sell for about $1000, compared to about $800 for their first model.
 
What????? No more posi lock up????? That was what sold me on them in the first place :mad:

I think I will try and get ahold of Mike today and see what my options are. Also I went to their web site and it has been updated. It shows the same options/wording however the price has increased to $895.
 
I've been in contact with Mike as well. The Posilock is available with these converters
but per our conversations, having things locked thru the 2-3 shift is very hard on the
trans. I prefer the standard lockup style and then I can choose my lockup point.

I am still running the 9.5" but will be switching to the 10" soon. The 9.5" is too small
to be efficient at 5000 - 5500 RPM which is where us street guys run. The DS files
I saw from Mike on the 10" show a very efficient converter with good torque
multiplication and good coupling at the top end. My 9.5" rocks, I can hardly wait
for the upgraded one.

Bob
 
Bob,
I was interested in hearing more about the converter you have now. The converter you currently have (9.5") is a beefed up version of the first set that went out on Mine and Carl's cars I think. If I am not mistaken you do not have the posilock but I am more interested in the fins which is what went wrong with the first one. I have one of these (2nd version) that I have not installed in hopes of getting it updated to the most recent version. I believe you and I spoke of my wishes in an e-mail, however, when I spoke with Mike recently he said that I would have to pay extra to get mine updated to the most recent version. The fact that I have to pay more to get what I origianally wanted and already payed for really upsets me. Mike said that I should put in the one I have and he was confident that it would be fine but I am unsure wether it will hold up. Have you run yours hard? launched hard? WOT locks? etc? I am not going to put this converter back in untill I feel confident.

Thanks in advance for any input you can provide.


Oh yeah, Carl don't you have another update for us???
 
Hi,
Mine is still working great. I have been conservative with my stall speed
since I'm very picky about driveability. Mine is driving excellent, so I'm probably
going to up the stall speed a little next month....

I went to the track about 3 weeks ago, launched it hard, locked it... the whole deal.
(I borrowed some ET Streets) I got about 7 runs.

The converter never missed a beat, and runs just as nice after the punishment.

As far as no posilock, you could probably still get it. I know several people that have
busted their tranny's by shifting 2-3 with the TCC locked (various converters).
I would rather program my chip to do it at ~80 mph.

I have no durability worries with the converter.

So, Carl, how's the new one?

Bob
 
Well, I installed my new replacement Yank converter last weekend and made two passes at the track Friday night. I tried a few launches in a parking lot after the install, and it really is loose. I didn't actually check the zero boost stall but my guess is 2800-3000 rpm. I can hold about 4-5 psi with my brakes and Nitto dr's, and that's 34-3500 rpms. At the track I did a good burnout and launched at 4 psi. As soon as I floored it the boost came up (my car has never, never spooled like this), the rpms flashed to 4000+, and the tires spun for about 10 feet. I got a 2.01 60', and ran 12.86 at 106.4 mph. The car definitely did not pull as hard at the bottom of third gear but did mile-an-hour okay. In basically the same state of tune with a modified 2800 stall D5 I run 12.4-12.8 at 106-109 mph. Tried again, launching at 2 psi, and again spun but only for a couple of feet. Ran 12.78 at 107.4 mph with a 2.05 60'. Between an accident and breakdowns that was it for the evening. Pulled some directscan data to compare to the 2800 stall. At 100 mph with the 2800 I averaged 5050 rpm based on a 12.8/107 and a 12.4/109 pass three weeks ago. With the Yank I averaged 5085 rpm, so the efficiency IS really good at 5000 rpm. On the 2-3 shift the 2800 dropped from 4925 to 4142 on average, or 783 rpm, while the Yank dropped from 5062 to 4638, or 424 rpm. That means it's a lot looser at 4000 rpm than the 2800 stall, and that's my greatest concern. Around town the throttle response is excellent. If you barely mash on the gas to putt around, the tach goes to about 2200 rpm and the car moves just fine. Mash more and it goes to about 24-2500, and mat it and it flashes to 34-3600 rpm and the PTE54 spools immediately. Gas mileage seems about the same around town but I'm only 3/4 done with the first tank. The torque multiplication at stall is definitely awesome as now the car will fry the Nittos at will. Build 2 psi on the brake, let off and floor the gas, and the car will sit still for about a second then go leaving two solid black stripes all the way through first. So far the best launch technique seems to be to hold the brake and mash about halfway briskly but not as fast as possible. After about 1.5 seconds the boost is passing 3-5 psi, and let off the brake and floor it. The car transfers weight and I was able to get two launches that way with no spin - boy, it felt great. Whether that will work at the track, and how repeatable it is, remains to be seen. With the 2800, if you just floor it from a dead stop the car moves about two car lengths before the boost passes 5 psi, and it may or may not chirp the tires towards the top of first gear. With the Yank, the car moves about two feet and rips the Nittos loose. I almost :)-)) can't imagine how it would feel with slicks, but I expect within a year I'll know.

So, bottom line? It spools great, frys the tires with all kinds of low end power I didn't have before, and at 5000 rpm is just as tight as the 2800 stall D5. If I shifted at 55-5800 rpm so after the shift the engine was closer to 5000 rpms I would absolutely love it. As it is, I'm still not sure because it just seems a little too loose at the bottom of each gear. I'm going to drive some more, and then talk to Mike and see what his thoughts are on lowering the stall speed 200 rpm and on what that will do to the efficiency at 4000 rpm. The other option is to lock it just after the 2-3 shift, and he did assure me that it should handle thousands of wot lockups. Anyway, that's where it stands now.
 
Hey,

Can I see the DS file....?

or just get me some data of RPM and MPH at the top of third.... (efficiency data)
(I assume the DS defaults are set to 26.1" tire and 3.42 gear)

Sounds promising, what happens with an efficient converter on the shift is it goes back
into torque multiplication. So it's still 'efficient' sort-of.

Get some more solid stall speed data and feed it back to Mike.

I think I know what I'm going to do for mine....

Are you going to lock yours at WOT?

Bob
 
Can I see the DS file....?

I'll try to email both passes to you this week.

(I assume the DS defaults are set to 26.1" tire and 3.42 gear)

Have to check. May have the tire height set to 26.

Sounds promising, what happens with an efficient converter on the shift is it goes back
into torque multiplication. So it's still 'efficient' sort-of.

Yeah, but it sure felt flat after the 2-3 shift compared to the 2800 stall. I know how unreliable pants are as a dyno, but ... :)

Get some more solid stall speed data and feed it back to Mike.

I think I know what I'm going to do for mine....

What's that? What I have or ask for it to be tighter, like I bought in the first place before he decided to change it?

Are you going to lock yours at WOT?

Haven't been, to make the converter last longer. I'll think about it.
 
I'm going to shoot for half way between mine and yours.

mine = 2100 at zero psi.
yours = 2900 at zero psi (you said this was a guess...)

half-way = 2500 at zero psi.....

I still have a 9.5" I think the 10" is the way to go. (like you have)

I have been locking mine at WOT, it works fine and I have noticed
no changes in the converter. I lock it at 80 mph.

a quick check for zero psi stall is to brake torque a WOT stab.
i.e. press the brake and punch the accelerator to wot quickly,
the RPMS will rise to the zero psi stall speed, level off a little
and then begin to rise more as the boost comes up.

If you email the DS files, check what the DS prefs are set to.

Bob
 
Data for comparison

Here is a small sampling of data from my TSM car on its 10.67 pass, this is from launch to the lowest RPM after the 2-3 shift (~5.1 seconds of data):

ERPM AD Boost IPW DutyCycl CLT TPS

4100 25 12.02 psi 7.10 48.55% 69 4.33
4261 24 12.73 psi 7.29 51.76% 69 4.33
4427 24 13.98 psi 7.61 56.15% 69 4.33
4504 24 14.71 psi 7.86 59.02% 69 4.33
4570 24 15.23 psi 8.00 60.92% 69 4.33
4608 24 15.77 psi 8.14 62.50% 69 4.33
4753 24 18.09 psi 8.81 69.82% 69 4.33
4871 24 18.80 psi 9.00 73.07% 69 4.33
5061 24 20.41 psi 9.42 79.49% 69 4.33
5133 23 20.76 psi 9.52 81.40% 69 4.33
5186 22 21.66 psi 9.75 84.29% 69 4.33
5156 24 21.83 psi 9.80 84.19% 69 4.31
5199 23 22.00 psi 9.84 85.29% 69 4.31
5285 22 22.54 psi 9.98 87.94% 69 4.31
5342 22 22.72 psi 10.03 89.30% 69 4.31
5404 22 22.54 psi 9.98 89.92% 69 4.31
5459 22 22.72 psi 10.03 91.25% 69 4.31
5498 24 22.72 psi 10.03 91.91% 69 4.31
5518 22 22.72 psi 10.03 92.24% 69 4.31
5571 22 22.72 psi 10.03 93.13% 69 4.31
5345 23 23.08 psi 10.29 91.66% 69 4.31
5332 24 23.08 psi 10.29 91.44% 69 4.31
5313 22 23.08 psi 10.29 91.11% 69 4.31
5281 23 22.90 psi 10.24 90.15% 69 4.31
5285 23 23.08 psi 10.29 90.63% 69 4.31
5320 22 23.08 psi 10.29 91.23% 69 4.31
5341 22 23.25 psi 10.34 92.00% 69 4.31
5372 24 23.25 psi 10.34 92.54% 69 4.31
5386 22 23.08 psi 10.29 92.36% 69 4.31
5402 23 23.08 psi 10.29 92.64% 69 4.31
5421 23 23.25 psi 10.34 93.38% 69 4.31
5423 23 22.90 psi 10.24 92.58% 69 4.31
5509 23 23.25 psi 10.34 94.90% 69 4.31
5528 22 23.25 psi 10.34 95.23% 69 4.31
5544 22 23.25 psi 10.34 95.50% 69 4.31
5552 22 23.25 psi 10.34 95.64% 69 4.31
5580 22 23.08 psi 10.29 95.69% 69 4.31
5619 22 23.43 psi 10.38 97.23% 69 4.33
5648 22 23.43 psi 10.38 97.73% 69 4.33
5679 22 23.08 psi 10.29 97.39% 69 4.33
5687 22 23.08 psi 10.29 97.52% 69 4.33
5717 22 23.43 psi 10.38 98.92% 69 4.33
5742 22 23.08 psi 10.29 98.47% 69 4.33
5754 22 23.25 psi 10.34 99.12% 69 4.31
5820 22 23.62 psi 10.43 101.20% 69 4.31
5839 21 23.62 psi 10.43 101.53% 69 4.31
5868 21 23.62 psi 10.43 102.03% 69 4.31
5884 21 23.43 psi 10.38 101.81% 69 4.31
5909 21 23.43 psi 10.38 102.25% 69 4.31
5958 21 23.62 psi 10.43 103.60% 69 4.31
5990 22 23.79 psi 10.48 104.62% 69 4.31
6031 21 23.62 psi 10.43 104.86% 69 4.31
6009 21 23.79 psi 10.48 104.95% 69 4.31
6031 21 23.62 psi 10.43 104.86% 69 4.31
5730 22 23.62 psi 10.43 99.63% 69 4.31
5354 23 23.62 psi 10.43 93.09% 69 4.31
5312 23 23.79 psi 10.48 92.77% 69 4.31
5317 23 23.62 psi 10.43 92.45% 69 4.31
5313 22 23.62 psi 10.43 92.38% 69 4.31
5301 22 23.62 psi 10.43 92.17% 69 4.31

You could always graph it (like I do) and look for tranny slippage, exact shift points, etc.:)
 
Carl,

What cam are you running?

Let me know what you find with the zero psi stall speed.

Bob
 
Could someone explain the torque multiplication to me? Also what is the stock torque multiplication? 1:1?

,Thanks -DC
 

What cam are you running?

Let me know what you find with the zero psi stall speed.

Bone stock long block. Mike said the zero psi stall was 2900 in his car. I'll check tonight in mine.
 
Hi, good data. if you have a ds file of a brake torque that is a quick WOT punch
then the zero psi stall speed is about where the rpms 'turn'. There will be a corner in the RPM trace as the converter 'catches' but before the turbo spins up. I'd like to see a DS file like this.

This is how I've been comparing converters lately, since tachs, boost gauges, and
perceptions can vary some.

When you stated that your first converter was 2400 RPM, under what conditions was that?
(taking notes) By those same criteria, what would you call this one? Industry conventions
go out the window with these turbo cars....
I'd call yours a 3400......(5psi spec)
But, you could also call it a 2800 (zero psi spec)
If you had a transbrake you could probably get it over 4000......

Sinful6: Torque multiplication is something that the torque converter does with some
of the 'slip rpm'. With a 2:1 multiplication ratio if the engine puts 100 ft-lb into the converter
the converter puts out 200 ft/lb. Multiplication is highest when the vehicle is stopped
and falls as you accelerate. At some MPH multiplication ceases and you just have converter efficiency to transmit torque to the transmission.

Yank's site has some good data also. www.converter.cc

Bob
 
Run the car forwards and backwards at idle, stopping with the ebrake both ways after a couple of feet, 10 times to tighten up the rear brakes as much as possible (I do this about once a week). Roll forwards the last time, stop with ebrake, mash brake pedal as hard as I can, and gradually mash the gas pedal. The rpms come up, then the boost starts coming up. Keep going until either the tires spin or the boost/rpm maxes out. With the first Yank the boost maxed at about 3 psi and ds showed 2400 rpm with no tire spin (and no change from about 50% tps to foot on the floor). With my 2800 stall D5 the boost is over 8 psi and the rpm 2750-2800, usually with no tire spin. Sometimes the boost goes on up past 10 psi and the tires do spin then. With this Yank the tires spin at about 5-6 psi with ds showing 3300-3500 rpm (don't have a solid number yet for this). I take 3-8 seconds to get to the stall, so this puts a lot of heat into the converter and I let the car idle for several minutes or just go for a drive afterwards to cool it back down. I don't heat up the Nittos and leave the right rear airbag at 5 psi. See why I say this Yank is LOOSE? If I can get over 3400 rpm without fully loading it, think what a transbrake would get. I call it 3400 or so.
 
The following is from an f-body guy - the Yank converters are pretty well known in the f-body world, and generally the faster f-bodies are using these. However, these are generally on non-boosted cars running NA or on spray, so we are talking about radically different power/torque curves from GNs.

Having said this, I am running a Yank converter mated to a 200-4R, which is a tranny a number of you are using (and why I am posting this). Mine has a lockup feature (in OD only by design). After I get a few passes with this combo, I will let you all know the results, even though my engine setup is obviously different.
 
give the stab test a try. set the brakes and (with DS recording) stomp the gas..

1....2.....3.... and let off.

take a look at the recording. (or send it to me.)

The idea is to get some way of checking stall speed that is independent of:
brakes
boost gauge calibration
tach calibration
other variables......

Just curious.

At any rate, I agree with the "3400" rating. 5psi measurement; which is about how the Vigilante's stack up.

How's the smile factor?

Bob

(what turbo are you running?, still have those 72 lb injectors in there?)
 
Okay, Bob, I stabbed it from a dead stop and saw a brief plateau at 2500 rpm and about 0 psi, then the boost came on up and the rpms got over 4000 pretty quickly. Yes, still the 72's, with ATR headers, CAS V2, THDP, light cat, PTE54, and ATR dual 2.5" ss catback with UltraFlows. Still seems okay. I'm just putting miles on it to check the gas mileage and driveability. This weekend I'll try to go back to the track and get a better 60'.
 
Thanks Carl, My dataset is getting more complete.....

When I had my 'other car' (274" stage1/M&A/TE63/...) and ran
drag radials at the track I staged at zero boost or slight vaccuum and
squeezed into the throttle, hitting WOT just a little before the shift. I got
many high 1.7's this way (16" Drag Radials) anything else and they'd spin
pretty good.

Have fun......

Gotta call Mike now......

Bob
 
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