Alky Vs Racegas!!!

[TurboDave]

So if I understand correctly from the last couple posts, alky is being touted as an octane booster/octane additive/replacement.
So I guess my next most logical question would have to be, what is the R+M/2 octane rating of the alky used in the system?
Honest question to which I don't have an answer.

 

[Blazer406]

So if I understand correctly from the last couple posts, alky is being touted as an octane booster/octane additive/replacement.
So I guess my next most logical question would have to be, what is the R+M/2 octane rating of the alky used in the system?
Honest question to which I don't have an answer.

Found this over at GNTTYPE....

Was about octanes... and mixing certain amounts with gas... what octane you end up with....


Methanol or Ethanol
R+M/2...101
Cost...$0.60 - $1.75/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...94.3 Octane (Methanol)
10%...94.7 Octane (Ethanol)
20%...Not Recommended

I should point out... based on the price... that this is old info.... as the last methanol I bought was $2.99 a gallon and that was probably about 9 months ago :-(

My car has been down from a spun bearning since then.... I was consuming about 1-1/2 gal/week driving my GN on 92 octane + alky... on 22 lbs boost.....and I was driving about 400+ miles per week...man I miss driving it daily...

 

[Jerryl]

........ BTW, this is a GREAT thread guys. No flames intended on my part to anyone. I love it when you can't get a straight answer to something that everyone believes so much in.

........... It's like a person saying there's no God in a group of people. The people believe in Him but yet they can't answer "with an open mind" what makes them believe...such as proof. The reason they "believe it" is because it's PREACHED to them all the time so they believe its true. (Oh, boy........ )

No flame intended and NO INTENTION to convert anyone, but i respectfully have to disagree with your statement according to;

Hebrews 11:6 NIV
And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
But that is for another forum. :biggrin:


Back on topic;
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." A. Einstein

 

[Jerryl]

So if I understand correctly from the last couple posts, alky is being touted as an octane booster/octane additive/replacement.
So I guess my next most logical question would have to be, what is the R+M/2 octane rating of the alky used in the system?
Honest question to which I don't have an answer.

Some more info on methanol
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/hot-air-non-intercooled-tech/157838-methanol-facts.html

 

[TurboDave]

Found this over at GNTTYPE....

Was about octanes... and mixing certain amounts with gas... what octane you end up with....


Methanol or Ethanol
R+M/2...101
Cost...$0.60 - $1.75/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...94.3 Octane (Methanol)
10%...94.7 Octane (Ethanol)
20%...Not Recommended

I...

Interesting. Appearences are that most of the gains must be coming from the cooling affect rather than octane.

 

[vacuum 6]

Maybe I'm missing something but what is the reason for this thread? Which one is better?

 

[salvageV6]

Actually most of the gains on any car are tuning to it's abilities, and where people have gone years before or at least said they did on the internet.

The problem with race gas is you need two good working tunes to both race with it and drive with 93 pump to a decent power level.

Most folks can't tune one type of gas let alone two.

I drive and race with basically the same tune on pump and alky., tuning with boost and timing and fuel/alky. if needed with simple knobs and minor changes at that from daily driven street tune.

Driving with decent performance daily is far more important than getting a slightly lower time slip at the track and running around town at 15psi. :frown:

Going from 15psi. boost at 18* timing to race gas and 28psi. and 26* timing is troubling for some folk who don't have their tune in order before they get to the track.

You know those trailered 11 second cars.

Carry on.....

 

[87NAT]

"Driving with decent performance daily is far more important than getting a slightly lower time slip at the track and running around town at 15psi. :frown: "

SalvageV6 hit the nail on the head. That is why I repeat what I said in my earleir post. Alky is the BEST mod I have ever done on all 3 of my TR's in the past 12 years. I am not concerned with whether my car runs 11.98776 rounded to the nearest pie equation . As long as it performs well on the street with 23 plus psi of boost I am happy. And it does it without the hassle of chip changes, expensive race gas and o2 sensor changes. By the way I have a collection of o2 sensors(slightly used ) from my race gas days if anyone is interested, Oh, sorry, wrong section to post this.:tongue:

 

[SloGN]

Actually most of the gains on any car are tuning to it's abilities, and where people have gone years before or at least said they did on the internet.

The problem with race gas is you need two good working tunes to both race with it and drive with 93 pump to a decent power level.

Most folks can't tune one type of gas let alone two.

I drive and race with basically the same tune on pump and alky., tuning with boost and timing and fuel/alky. if needed with simple knobs and minor changes at that from daily driven street tune.

Driving with decent performance daily is far more important than getting a slightly lower time slip at the track and running around town at 15psi. :frown:

Going from 15psi. boost at 18* timing to race gas and 28psi. and 26* timing is troubling for some folk who don't have their tune in order before they get to the track.

You know those trailered 11 second cars.

Carry on.....

well since i have the FAST system all i have to do is add the race fuel to the tank and then turn the boost up.

i have full fuel control all the way to 30 psi of boost. as where most of the guys are still ont he limit of 255. so i don't have to add fuel via the pressure regulator 1 psi of fuel to every 1 psi of added boost over my street tune.


i drive my car to the track and drive it home.

i know of some trailored 13 second cars too but i'm not pointing any fingers

 

[VadersV6]

If you do a search with my user name, you'll find a similar thread where I looked around and found some research numbers on different distillates, and xylene kicked the ass of every other one (alky, methanol, etc) by a huge margin, in every respect thats important to us...there were like 3 different types...I think meta-xylene was the best. I want to try it but Im worried I may damage the system. It may be too corrosive to rubbers and plastics.
As for "which is better", thats a question that cant get far. Thats like saying which is better, a 747 or a cesna...they both have their intended purpose. But what do you need to do? Go cross country or 1 state over? How many people are flying? Whats the weather like? In the case of boost, you need to squash detonation/pre-ignition. Can high octane race gas do it? yup. Can alky injection do it? Yup. Can either system fail? Yup. Does 1 system provide more benefit than just octane increase? Yup. Alky does. The evaporative effect of the mist super cools the intake charge extremely fast, creating not only a draw on incoming air (more dense intake charge is the result), but a high octane fuel supplement. Detonation/pre-ignition can be squashed through a colder intake charge AND higher octane. Alky provides both. High octane fuel only does 1. But tuning alky can be tricky as o2's will have to be interpreted differently and you may need EGT's to tune it right. Also, a separate nozzle sprays in the alky in, in a sloppy way. High octane race fuel is precisely injected into each cylinder.

 

[salvageV6]

Not everyone has or needs a FAST system to run 113mph.

Anyone that can tune these cars can run any type of fuel and additive and make them perform.

Many can't get one tune right let alone two or three.

I like the easy daily driver and one tune concept.

Works well in both practice and theory.

And I have a collection of old replaced O2 sensors as well, but I think all mine are still good. :biggrin:

I haven't touched my fuel pressure regulators in either car, other than once a year to make sure they are spot on 45psi., for about 8 years.

Haven't touched my headgaskets in 20 years either.

I am happy with pump gas and alky., I think that is what pizzes off most race gas users.

Either that or burned fingers from replacing O2 sensors all the time. :biggrin:

 

[Ross L]

My thoughts.First, I would love to have "dual fuel" set up like turbo2dr! Seems like the best option for a street car. Second thought, "1.5 gallons a week"! wow!!! Third, the peace of mind I had with race gas was priceless. 24psi, 26 deg timing,,,,never any knock retard. Not on the shift, not comming into boost, not when the tires spun,,,,,none! Fourth, alky is the "best" option for my street car.
Ross

 

[QUIP'6']

my car is definetly faster on alky than rape gas. i went 12.40@106 on 114 and i went 12.004@110 on alky with lower boost and less timing with 797 o2's no knock rich tune. as for alky pump going out i always watch the light that to see that it is still green if it goes red i get out

 

[TurboDave]

my car is definetly faster on alky than rape gas. i went 12.40@106 on 114 and i went 12.004@110 on alky with lower boost and less timing with 797 o2's no knock rich tune. as for alky pump going out i always watch the light that to see that it is still green if it goes red i get out

Sorry, I don't mean to sound
But that just doesn't make ANY sense at all. You reduced the boost, reduced the timing and went quicker and faster.????
What's wrong with this picture? Probably that fact that the two runs weren't the least bit comparable (weather/track/conditions), and your race gas state of tune had to have sucked.

 

[Blazer406]

I don't have personal experience to support this, but Eddie Brewer had ran his stock turbo'd T many many passes on race gas........ his best time he got was after the alky install...... 11.37 with alky..... and I am almost positive... pump gas....

I will agree that it seems there were some other variables in play in lpaulabbot's case..... that is a pile of difference

Here is an old post by Eddie... before he ran the 11.37.... talking about race gas vs alky....

Old Post

Here is another thread that he posted in.... seems like it might contribute to this thread as well...

Another old thread

 

[SloGN]

my car is definetly faster on alky than rape gas. i went 12.40@106 on 114 and i went 12.004@110 on alky with lower boost and less timing with 797 o2's no knock rich tune. as for alky pump going out i always watch the light that to see that it is still green if it goes red i get out

the light being light up only means that there is power going to the pump itself. or at least that how my smc kit works.

 

[bsdlinux]

I don't have personal experience to support this, but Eddie Brewer had ran his stock turbo'd T many many passes on race gas........ his best time he got was after the alky install...... 11.37 with alky..... and I am almost positive... pump gas....

Ed Brewer's signature :

Ed @ DC Tech
87 turbo t (white),3400# wo/driver, astro roof, 135,000 miles, stock motor, stock turbo, stock IC with big neck, "alky control" with chip by Eric Marshall 1.50 60 ft. 11.37 @ 116.35 (92+alcohol)

 

[Blazer406]

Ed has since sold his car.... but there were several board members that was there saw the runs.... and knew what his combo was.... that thing just rocked.

 

[bsdlinux]

Ed has since sold his car.... but there were several board members that was there saw the runs.... and knew what his combo was.... that thing just rocked.

That was his white one??

 

[QUIP'6']

the light being light up only means that there is power going to the pump itself. or at least that how my smc kit works.

WRONG it means pump is activated!!!!! green means you have reached proper pressure. you must not have the upgraded system oh i see you have the low grade smc