Quickturbosix
High on PSI
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2001
There was a thread on the old board with a Viper that had this set up. Anyone here ever try it?
Anyone running propane injection?
- Thread starter Quickturbosix
- Start date
- Joined
- May 27, 2001
Here's what I can tell you. Unfortunately I dont have a price yet since we are still experimenting with different components.
For several reasons, we ended up having to have solonoids custom made. I couldn't find anything that was available through any of the nitrous people or industrial supply places that would do what I wanted to do so for performance and safety, we had our own made.
This kit is much easier to tune than alcohol. Some of you probably noticed I said in the alcohol forum a while back that I was not going to be selling alcohol kits anymore. This is why.
Results are sort of on par with alcohol. It's a bit hard to explain but I'll just say that my most diligent tester, who I will get to chime in on this thread, is running 23-24 PSI on 93 octane with a 20 degree chip.
From a safety standpoint, we have taken about every precaution that can be taken. While Im sure there will be people who this idea scares the hell out of them, you have an 16 gallon bomb sitting underneath your trunk. I'd be more worried about that than this from a "getting in an accident standpoint." Without having pictures to show how we are doing things, that probably doesnt mean a whole lot.
None of the testers have had to refill their tanks yet. Testing has been going on for about 5 months now. Before someone rushes out and tries it, we aren't using your dad's BBQ tank.
Kits will be available from OGS Distrubuting and probably Downtown Motorsports (Kenny Brown) and possibly Charged Air Systems. Anyone interested in a kit, email Dan at OGS and bug him to speed things up, I'm waiting on him
Final words... I know there are going to be people who say to themselves "I can build this and save myself some money" and that's all cool.. but, Dan and I have spent a lot of time trying to cover every "What if XXXXXXXX goes wrong" scenarios out there and that is what's led to a lot of custom made pieces for this kit. We probably don't have everything covered but we have everything that we could come up with covered. Short of you getting hit by a semi or dump truck at just the right spot, I think this is a perfectly safe enhancement. If you do get hit by a semi or a dump truck in just the right spot, rest assured you will have much bigger problems than that propane system. Point I'm trying to make is don't rush out and hastily try to copy this kit without doing some serious research. You could end up regretting it later.
For several reasons, we ended up having to have solonoids custom made. I couldn't find anything that was available through any of the nitrous people or industrial supply places that would do what I wanted to do so for performance and safety, we had our own made.
This kit is much easier to tune than alcohol. Some of you probably noticed I said in the alcohol forum a while back that I was not going to be selling alcohol kits anymore. This is why.
Results are sort of on par with alcohol. It's a bit hard to explain but I'll just say that my most diligent tester, who I will get to chime in on this thread, is running 23-24 PSI on 93 octane with a 20 degree chip.
From a safety standpoint, we have taken about every precaution that can be taken. While Im sure there will be people who this idea scares the hell out of them, you have an 16 gallon bomb sitting underneath your trunk. I'd be more worried about that than this from a "getting in an accident standpoint." Without having pictures to show how we are doing things, that probably doesnt mean a whole lot.
None of the testers have had to refill their tanks yet. Testing has been going on for about 5 months now. Before someone rushes out and tries it, we aren't using your dad's BBQ tank.
Kits will be available from OGS Distrubuting and probably Downtown Motorsports (Kenny Brown) and possibly Charged Air Systems. Anyone interested in a kit, email Dan at OGS and bug him to speed things up, I'm waiting on him
Final words... I know there are going to be people who say to themselves "I can build this and save myself some money" and that's all cool.. but, Dan and I have spent a lot of time trying to cover every "What if XXXXXXXX goes wrong" scenarios out there and that is what's led to a lot of custom made pieces for this kit. We probably don't have everything covered but we have everything that we could come up with covered. Short of you getting hit by a semi or dump truck at just the right spot, I think this is a perfectly safe enhancement. If you do get hit by a semi or a dump truck in just the right spot, rest assured you will have much bigger problems than that propane system. Point I'm trying to make is don't rush out and hastily try to copy this kit without doing some serious research. You could end up regretting it later.
I have had one of Jay's kits (his second) on my car for about 4 months and am still getting more out of it. I have a mid 12 second car in street trim and I bettered my best pump gas time the second trip down the track with propane and a 2/10th's slower 60' time. I have seen a 2 MPH increase as well. This was versus a Variable Timing chip and 20 lbs of boost. I am running one of Jay's regular street (93 octane) chips with the propane injection. I can run 17 lbs of boost with this chip and no propane.
I have taken pretty small steps to see how far you can go, but have run 22-24 lbs of boost with no knock. And as Jay mentioned, no refills yet. Not much of the kit is the same as when it was installed, and I am about to get basically a whole new setup based on what we've learned so far. The over the counter parts were not doing the job. I know I have not reached the limits of the kit yet and am still playing with it.
The biggest seat of the pants difference is how fast the car spools from a roll now. It wasn't something I was looking for, but it was obvious enough to notice. I am certain the track results will improve further with the right hardware.
I have taken pretty small steps to see how far you can go, but have run 22-24 lbs of boost with no knock. And as Jay mentioned, no refills yet. Not much of the kit is the same as when it was installed, and I am about to get basically a whole new setup based on what we've learned so far. The over the counter parts were not doing the job. I know I have not reached the limits of the kit yet and am still playing with it.
The biggest seat of the pants difference is how fast the car spools from a roll now. It wasn't something I was looking for, but it was obvious enough to notice. I am certain the track results will improve further with the right hardware.
Quickturbosix
High on PSI
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2001
Good to see there is some research going into this. From what I have read here and there propane can be the ticket to unlocking horsepower that alky cant produce, or do consitantly. From what I understand alky while loose octane rather fast sitting in a injection system where propane never changes.
On another note...
Listen to Jay on this one. Not something you want to try and build from a Coleman camp stove and some n2o solenoids. With alky if it leaks its no biggie, n2o leaks so you get a little happy while driving, propane leak + spark = convertible gn.
If you need another test car...hint hint hint...something in the low 11 high 10 range let me know...hint hint hint...
On another note...
Listen to Jay on this one. Not something you want to try and build from a Coleman camp stove and some n2o solenoids. With alky if it leaks its no biggie, n2o leaks so you get a little happy while driving, propane leak + spark = convertible gn.
If you need another test car...hint hint hint...something in the low 11 high 10 range let me know...hint hint hint...
Turbojorge
Unstoppable
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2001
What are we looking at as far as price for one of these kits?
Sounds very interesting, except for that convertible part.
Sounds very interesting, except for that convertible part.
- Joined
- May 27, 2001
So far the only drawbacks have been that Kenny can't seem to get the boost up high enough to make it knock with a street chip. Also, FWIW, propane doesn't suffer from the "tip in stutter" that alcohol can. At one point, Kenny was turning the kit on at 5 PSI.
As far as cost, I really don't know because I'm still testing a variety of solonoids plus I won't be selling the kit directly. Dan and the other guys will be so pricing will be up to him. I do know that there are going to be optional accessories you can purchase to upgrade the kit from the base kit. You will be able to add them after the fact relatively easy.
As far as cost, I really don't know because I'm still testing a variety of solonoids plus I won't be selling the kit directly. Dan and the other guys will be so pricing will be up to him. I do know that there are going to be optional accessories you can purchase to upgrade the kit from the base kit. You will be able to add them after the fact relatively easy.
This idea is borrowed from the turbo diesel world. They needed to increase power and save money yet not buy new fuel system components. So propane injection was born and looks to be way more promising in the long run than alky.
Check out the 3000gt/stealth sites, there are alot of guys running this already and having great results. There is a supra out there running 26 psi on pump gas doing high 10's. There will definitely be some buicks doing that with this.
It's great to see guys like Jay keep evolving the systems to not only keep up but surpass expectations. This stuff will last for months and its cheap. Could not get any better.
(Probably what they said about alky)
One benefit to propane is that smaller injectors are going to go way deeper into the e.t. Thats one reason why this was engineered in the first place. Looks like my 36 lbs are staying for awhile now.
Keep up the good work guys,
I need to spank some of these imports starting to catch up to us.
Check out the 3000gt/stealth sites, there are alot of guys running this already and having great results. There is a supra out there running 26 psi on pump gas doing high 10's. There will definitely be some buicks doing that with this.
It's great to see guys like Jay keep evolving the systems to not only keep up but surpass expectations. This stuff will last for months and its cheap. Could not get any better.
(Probably what they said about alky)
One benefit to propane is that smaller injectors are going to go way deeper into the e.t. Thats one reason why this was engineered in the first place. Looks like my 36 lbs are staying for awhile now.
Keep up the good work guys,
I need to spank some of these imports starting to catch up to us.
- Joined
- May 27, 2001
Actually the guy doing propane in the 3000GT world is Matt at Dynamic Racing. Matt and I have been working together on this whole deal for over 6 months. The Supra you refer to is John Gonzalez's car. He is a former Buick guy and owns the server the buick.fiendish.net chat server is run from.
My kit is going to be somewhat different than Matt's. Matt has a reasonably solid design for his kit but it's essentially a bare boned kit and I'm interested in making my system more robust than what he has as well as using more specialized components. When I have everything nailed down, I will be sharing my findings/sources with Matt so that he can revamp his kit also should he see fit.
There may be some other 3000 GT/Stealth guys doing propane but Matt was the guy who was leading the way with those guys. I don't really keep up with them so I can't say either way.
My kit is going to be somewhat different than Matt's. Matt has a reasonably solid design for his kit but it's essentially a bare boned kit and I'm interested in making my system more robust than what he has as well as using more specialized components. When I have everything nailed down, I will be sharing my findings/sources with Matt so that he can revamp his kit also should he see fit.
There may be some other 3000 GT/Stealth guys doing propane but Matt was the guy who was leading the way with those guys. I don't really keep up with them so I can't say either way.
Hay Jay,
Do you need a stage 2 street car for testing. I have 485 miles on my stage 2 with M&As. Very similar to the setup that I sold you and Nelson back in the mid 90s. Ruggles didn't build this one.
It is getting time to apply some boost to it.
Let me know.
Gary
turbogn@nc.rr.com
Do you need a stage 2 street car for testing. I have 485 miles on my stage 2 with M&As. Very similar to the setup that I sold you and Nelson back in the mid 90s. Ruggles didn't build this one.
It is getting time to apply some boost to it.
Let me know.
Gary
turbogn@nc.rr.com
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2001
got any PICTURES or some more info on what ya'll have in store for us???
i put propane on my 86 t-type 2.5 years ago and had good luck with it-- the only problem was BOTTLE SIZE and not being able to get enough boost!!! at the time i was scared to take the car above 22 psi
the car would literally get richer on the top end--
i was nieve and took the system off the car cause i didnt have a big enough turbo for the car-
what is soo cool about propane, its 117 OCTANE,
ive got a few Questions for you JayC
1. are you going to be putting in a mixer ( converts liquid propane into vapor) and shooting vapor into the uppipe?
or just using HC5 propane as a liquid and letting it expand as it reaches the intake tract??
2. what size bottle ? 5-10 lb bottle?
3. when can i get some specs on it??
im hooked!!! ive been wanting to do something just like this on my racecar for extra fuel-
PS- when i did this years ago i used a 33lb forklift bottle- and at the bottle i was able to use a HYSTER FORKLIFT propane shutoff valve-
i have that valve sitting in front of me right now
ADVANDED FUEL COMPONENTS is the maker of it and it holds 312 PSI of line pressure, and is 12 volt activated
* if you would like, i can get you the part # off of it and see if you like it-
i put propane on my 86 t-type 2.5 years ago and had good luck with it-- the only problem was BOTTLE SIZE and not being able to get enough boost!!! at the time i was scared to take the car above 22 psi
the car would literally get richer on the top end--
i was nieve and took the system off the car cause i didnt have a big enough turbo for the car-
what is soo cool about propane, its 117 OCTANE,
ive got a few Questions for you JayC
1. are you going to be putting in a mixer ( converts liquid propane into vapor) and shooting vapor into the uppipe?
or just using HC5 propane as a liquid and letting it expand as it reaches the intake tract??
2. what size bottle ? 5-10 lb bottle?
3. when can i get some specs on it??
im hooked!!! ive been wanting to do something just like this on my racecar for extra fuel-
PS- when i did this years ago i used a 33lb forklift bottle- and at the bottle i was able to use a HYSTER FORKLIFT propane shutoff valve-
i have that valve sitting in front of me right now
ADVANDED FUEL COMPONENTS is the maker of it and it holds 312 PSI of line pressure, and is 12 volt activated
* if you would like, i can get you the part # off of it and see if you like it-
- Joined
- May 27, 2001
Not yet
The system uses vapor, not liquid. I have tested liquid as well and dont really like it.
At this time you can't since I haven't finalized all of the parts we're going to use yet. I have one more shipment of solenoids coming to test then I will make the decision as to which one to use.
I thought about doing this but basically here is the situation I don't want to be in. I don't want to be selling a $750.00 propane system. I could keep adding stuff and keep adding stuff and drive the price through the roof but no one is going to buy it. So instead, we are trying to devise a system that has great room to grow so if you want to start with the base kit and expand later, you can. After we finish testing the new solenoids, I am going to get with Dan and hammer out a price of the kit and whatever accessories we decide to offer. At present, I believe we have 3 additional components that can be added to the system at a later date or you can buy them all at once and have a super-duper system. The add on pieces mainly help in tuneability.
The base kit will hopefully be right around that price. I'd like to see the kits available within the next 4-6 weeks but with having to have solenoids custom made, that may be asking a lot.
