Innovate Motorsports wb02. Anyone using it?

EXCERPT FROM PRODUCER

"The LM-1 uses a very different approach that by its nature avoids the pitfalls of the PID loop and is inherently linear and independent of the
sensor response curve.

Think of it like of a fuel injection. You could theoretically run a fuel injector with a controlled current so it opens only a little for low fuel flow and more for higher flow. This would be very difficult, non-linear and
inaccurate, and also would vary widely between injectors, but would be possible. Or you can switch the injector on and off and vary the on-time vs. off-time precisely. The flow rate during on-time is fixed and the average flow per cycle is linearly related to the on- vs. off time. This
approach is simple, inexpensive and can instantly adapt from cycle to cycle precisely and predictable. The LM-1 uses a variation of the second approach(and using some more elaborate math :) ).

Looked at it another way, the LM-1 uses the sensor as the time-controlling element and comparator device of a delta-sigma-A/D design. The analog input of this A/D is not a voltage but lambda itself, the digital output is direct and follows instantly (delayed just by the sensor response time itself) without any feedback regulation or settling time. The reason the LM-1 is relatively inexpensive is that the firmware (and embedded math) has a zero production cost...
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Some people who have modified the original DIY-WB to run with Bosch have found that it works, but I doubt they actually measured the output compared
to known lambda gases. We have tried that approach early in our development and found errors of up to 0.9-1.0 AFR when the exhaust temperature or flow varies because of the inherent temperature gradient and thermal inertia in the Bosch between the heater and the cells (cells are cooled or heated much faster than the heater element).
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The Bosch specs assume control of temperature by the sense cell resistance(impedance). Although the sense-cell voltage (input to the PID regulator)is fairly independent of temp., its resistance is temperature dependent. The pump current (and therefore measured AFR) and pump cell resistance depend very much on the temperature of the pump cell.

In the conventional
PID approach measuring the pump cell resistance is very difficult to impossible. That's why the sense cell is used ... The LM-1 approach CAN
measure the pump-cell resistance and can therefore control the pump cell temperature directly. This avoids the inherent error due to the possible temperature gradient between sense and pump cell.

A customer of ours has tried the LM-1 last weekend on a NASCAR race car side-by-side (two side-by-side bungs) with a very expensive professional AFR meter (> $10k). He found that both showed exactly the same AFR but the LM-1 was responding instantly while the expensive unit took up to 1 second to finally settle on the same AFR after some overswing time (where it oscillated around the actual AFR). This is very typical of a non-optimized PID loop.

This customer (a professional race car electronics manuf.) now thinks that the LM-1 solution is the only one that can be used for closed loop control or even just AFR logging of NHRA dragsters, because with the others the race is over before the AFR settles in :)."
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Very illuminating!

:)
 
Well, I ordered one yesterday. Will be a week or two before I pull the thdp and weld in the bung, but I'll report back as soon as I start testing.
 
Thanks for trail-blazin', Carl!

We're betting your order will be one of the first of many to come!

Looks/sounds like a truly quality & purposeful product, from a reliable, professional source with a good Customer Service reputation.

Keep us posted with your findings & insights!! :)
 
Carl,

Definitely post your findings on this unit. I'm already thinking about where I could weld a bung...

Now for the real question: How can I get the WB reading to be recorded in my DirectScan? I'm thinking there has to be a way to do it through the MAT input, kinda like the Turbolink adapter. Hmmmm. Carl, does this unit have any type of output signal connector?

Thanks,
 
Originally posted by mgmshar

Now for the real question: How can I get the WB reading to be recorded in my DirectScan? I'm thinking there has to be a way to do it through the MAT input, kinda like the Turbolink adapter. Hmmmm.
YES YOU CAN! Ask TurboBob, he can tell ya how to do it.
 
...and, if somebody was really trying hard, they could create a chip that would target a certain WBO2 voltage under WOT conditions. Sorta like a poor-man's Fel-Pro system.

Hmmmm.....
 
Mike, there's at least one analog output channel in the lm1. Default programming is to simulate a narrow band o2 so you can plug it into the ecm, but the manual tells how to configure this in several interesting ways. Should be able to feed it into the mat input, just zero the mat maf correction table and the mat timing adjust table, like you would with the boost sense harness anyway. However, which would you rather log, boost or wbo2, hmm? :) I plan to use the lm1 to log rpm, tps, and wbo2 and I'll just look at the ds and lm1 data logs individually, using rpm to align them.
 
Originally posted by ijames
However, which would you rather log, boost or wbo2, hmm? :)
Remember, there is a vacuum/pressure pickup (for turbo PSI) that is availible with the LM1 that can be seen here



Originally posted by ijames

I plan to use the lm1 to log rpm, tps, and wbo2 and I'll just look at the ds and lm1 data logs individually, using rpm to align them.
Thats what I plan on doing also.
 
Since the WBs have a controlled heater, and high operating temp., they don't need EGT to fire them off. So you can mount them about anywhere. I have mine where the end of the cat converter would be, and then just run the wire in thru the door opening.

There is some slight delay, in response, but it beats cutting up a good down pipe in my book. If you hook up 2 WBs about 8' apart you can just see the difference on a LED display, most sampling rates of meters, scanners, etc, are so slow you lose the delay in the processing.
 
I also have mine in the test pipe and find about .5 sec delay at idle when blipping the throttle and about .3 hitting it to goto WOT from cruise and less than that i assume at WOT as the air is movin on at that point.
 
Actually, I like the idea of putting the WBO2 into my existing bung (before the turbo), and using the LM1 to simulate an O2 sensor for ECM closed loop control. No new holes to drill. Nice.

Is there any issue with the WBO2 getting too hot? In other words, would putting the WBO2 in the bung before the turbo be a problem?

Thanks,
 
mgmshar

The WBO2 must be placed downstream (after) the turbo. It will not read correctly and the pre-turbo exhaust temps are too high for the sensor (this info was from the creaters of the LM1).
 
Originally posted by ijames
Well, I ordered one yesterday. Will be a week or two before I pull the thdp and weld in the bung, but I'll report back as soon as I start testing.


Anything to report? Other than the O2 bung welded in the DP is their anything additional that needs to be done like wiring, etc....?

Looking forward to your results!
 
Originally posted by BoostKillsStres
I also have mine in the test pipe and find about .5 sec delay at idle when blipping the throttle and about .3 hitting it to goto WOT from cruise and less than that i assume at WOT as the air is movin on at that point.

Are you looking at the sampling rate of the display, or the sensor?. With the proper electronics the Honda sensor will pick out a lame cylinder on a v8 at 4K RPM.

I've run two WBs with no lag displays, and you can JUST barely see the difference between the two.
 
Probably some to do with the sampling rate as I'm looking at the change via DS at 18f/s. I was seeing the delay when blipping the throttle at idle and looking at the instant the tps starts to rise and the time it takes the WB to respond. I can't really see how you'd have no delay when looking at these 2 parameters as the instant the tps changes you then have injector fire and burn time along with that exhaust gas having to travel about 6ft to get to the sensor not to mention in such a low exhaust airflow situation.
 
Originally posted by BoostKillsStres
Probably some to do with the sampling rate as I'm looking at the change via DS at 18f/s. I was seeing the delay when blipping the throttle at idle and looking at the instant the tps starts to rise and the time it takes the WB to respond. I can't really see how you'd have no delay when looking at these 2 parameters as the instant the tps changes you then have injector fire and burn time along with that exhaust gas having to travel about 6ft to get to the sensor not to mention in such a low exhaust airflow situation.
What WB/Meter are you using?
 
I can't tell ya that, I'll get in trouble :D I tried to build my own but could never seem to get in touch with the parts group purchase so I bought a built one.
 
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