109 rebuild

[87Turboid]

Hello everyone, well tore my new block down (new to me) for rebuild got it in to the machine shop to mic, standard bore with a very small ridge in the top of the bore. Machinist says it’s ok will hone. This block 109 that I bought, well 2blocks came with a lot of parts, new stock pistons,comp cam,lifters,rebuilt heads, intake,new timing cover(trying to figure out make, some crap new turbo DNJ I believe, some crap 84-85 SS headers but lots of stock parts for a rebuild. Both cranks had to be turned 10/10 everything looks good though. My main question is bearings, heard a lot about TA 1557 cam bearings they sound good and then the main and rods, I’m looking at King bearings, sounds like these bearings really hold up well over Celvite or Federal Mogul, any thought. This will be a stock rebuild this time around with a few upgrades. I know this subject been discussed but I haven’t heard about the King? Also can we talk about crank end play and thrust bearing.

 

[Steve V]

As long as the bearing clearences are correct, any bearing will live just fine. Kings are good stuff as well as the others, it's a matter of personal preference. TA cam bearings are nice as well as durabond B13 , sealed power 1755m. Endplay is .003-.011 if it's larger than that there maybe and oversized thrust flange available. Crank will need to be machined for it though.

 

[87Turboid]

Thank you Sir, anymore input guys? What do you use or have used in the bearing Dept?

 

[87Turboid]

I’ve think I read that the Kings are softer alloy compared to others is this true?

 

[Jerryl]

Steve V is one of the most knowledgeable guys on these cars so I would take his advice. Hard/Soft bearings are personal preference. The bearing only controls the clearance/oiling and it's not a wear item.

 

[Steve V]

Steve V is one of the most knowledgeable guys on these cars so I would take his advice. Hard/Soft bearings are personal preference. The bearing only controls the clearance/oiling and it's not a wear item.

Thanks Tall Chinese Guy!

 

[dank GN]

I would be looking at better pistons then better bearings. A decent set of forged pistons is a must on any rebuild I do . They will stand up to more abuse then the stock ones . Do some research on the bearings there is a set for a super charged 3800 park ave that are wider for the mains which are better then the stock narrow main bearings . Just my opinion on this btw doesn’t mean much lol

 

[earlbrown]

^Wider on the rods.

 

[Turbo Archie]

You are thinking of the king race bearings....
Reg king are softer but should be fine on a stock build

 

[87Turboid]

Thanks guys for the replies ! This is a stock rebuild pretty much except for the turbo i want and also the intake porting and throttle body boring. I'm only looking for maybe 400hp This is what i got so far for a list. Stock crank has been ground 10\10, block is standard bore, why bore it if not needed? I have heard stock pistons will go 9's?. All these parts I got for this build came in a package with two 109 blocks, stock heads rebuilt, gasket set Fel pro, Comp Cams flat tappet cam,springs and lifters all new, new stock turbo pistons, 18 stock rods, lower intake and more, more, more... Here's my list Please take a look any advice would be appreciated.

1987 Buick GN Build; Portland Oregon West Coast
Machining and balancing B&M Engines Portland

1987 109 Block- standard bore, honed 45*

Main Bearings- King Bearings- $40 10\10
Rod Bearings- King $30.00 10\10
I've heard good things about these bearing?? Yes No?


Camshaft bearings-
TA_1557, 231 V6 with 20 Bolt oil pan. Hardened, Dual Groove, Dual Feed.
Price: $59.25

Pistons- new Stock Std-Already Have

Piston Rings-Moly-TA_V1635 standard 99.00

Rods- Stock- Reconditioned B&M Engines

Crankshaft- Stock Turbo rolled fillets, Turned 10\10

Cam- Comp Cam ? Have to check

Cam thrush button-TA_ROL150A
231-252 V6 Spring Type Cam Bumper $15.95

Flat Tappet lifters- new Comp Cams

Valve springs- Comp cams? Have to check lbs

pushrods new- stock

Heads- stock- reconditioned- Valves ? have to check, already done

Timing cover- new-not sure what make have to check, have two. If its cheap chinese throw it away?
New oil pump drive

Double row timing chain look new

Oil Pan- stock baffled- no gasket, the Right Stuff sealer

Intake lower- Ported? Yes\No?, Remove EGR? looks to been half-way removed. Send to Weber? $325.00

Upper Plemun PTE= Polished

Throttle body- stock-bored 62mm Throttle body.com

Headers- Need-Stock or TA

Coils- stock
Computer chip- some aftermarket chip, have to check

Turbo-?? No Turbo yet Would like a 3'' Vband exhaust flange, easy downpipe build my own.

Fuel Pump-inline,filter-gauge

Fuel regulator Stock or

fuel injectors, no sure have stock but need to be reconditioned

Oil pick up tube- need
TA_1520D
231-300-350'68 5/8"PICKUP TUBE $29.00

the right stuff pan sealer


V6 RIGHT TIMING CHAIN DAMPNER- TA_V1394R $18.95
Pushrods-

PTE Upper Plenum polished Cruz Performance $160.00

 

[dank GN]

^Wider on the rods.

Thanks earl !! correction the wider rod bearings not mains

 

[dank GN]

Thanks guys for the replies ! This is a stock rebuild pretty much except for the turbo i want and also the intake porting and throttle body boring. I'm only looking for maybe 400hp This is what i got so far for a list. Stock crank has been ground 10\10, block is standard bore, why bore it if not needed? I have heard stock pistons will go 9's?. All these parts I got for this build came in a package with two 109 blocks, stock heads rebuilt, gasket set Fel pro, Comp Cams flat tappet cam,springs and lifters all new, new stock turbo pistons, 18 stock rods, lower intake and more, more, more... Here's my list Please take a look any advice would be appreciated.

1987 Buick GN Build; Portland Oregon West Coast
Machining and balancing B&M Engines Portland

1987 109 Block- standard bore, honed 45*

Main Bearings- King Bearings- $40 10\10
Rod Bearings- King $30.00 10\10
I've heard good things about these bearing?? Yes No?


Camshaft bearings-
TA_1557, 231 V6 with 20 Bolt oil pan. Hardened, Dual Groove, Dual Feed.
Price: $59.25

Pistons- new Stock Std-Already Have

Piston Rings-Moly-TA_V1635 standard 99.00

Rods- Stock- Reconditioned B&M Engines

Crankshaft- Stock Turbo rolled fillets, Turned 10\10

Cam- Comp Cam ? Have to check

Cam thrush button-TA_ROL150A
231-252 V6 Spring Type Cam Bumper $15.95

Flat Tappet lifters- new Comp Cams

Valve springs- Comp cams? Have to check lbs

pushrods new- stock

Heads- stock- reconditioned- Valves ? have to check, already done

Timing cover- new-not sure what make have to check, have two. If its cheap chinese throw it away?
New oil pump drive

Double row timing chain look new

Oil Pan- stock baffled- no gasket, the Right Stuff sealer

Intake lower- Ported? Yes\No?, Remove EGR? looks to been half-way removed. Send to Weber? $325.00

Upper Plemun PTE= Polished

Throttle body- stock-bored 62mm Throttle body.com

Headers- Need-Stock or TA

Coils- stock
Computer chip- some aftermarket chip, have to check

Turbo-?? No Turbo yet Would like a 3'' Vband exhaust flange, easy downpipe build my own.

Fuel Pump-inline,filter-gauge

Fuel regulator Stock or

fuel injectors, no sure have stock but need to be reconditioned

Oil pick up tube- need
TA_1520D
231-300-350'68 5/8"PICKUP TUBE $29.00

the right stuff pan sealer


V6 RIGHT TIMING CHAIN DAMPNER- TA_V1394R $18.95
Pushrods-

PTE Upper Plenum polished Cruz Performance $160.00

Stock pistons can survive somepower the problem comes when u have a hiccup in your tune at 9sec power level it can’t take punishment like a Fordged piston could . What are u going to tune with ? TT chip?

 

[jay dcpt]

So is the goal 9 seconds? If it is I would rethink your build.

 

[87Turboid]

not sure yet, one step at a time. What pistons would you use? would you bore to .010 over? I think Diamond are the only ones at 10 or 20 over, maybe JE pistons. i didnt want to bore if not needed. thanks Dank. Not looking for 9s

 

[87Turboid]

Does anyone make a forged standard bore piston?

 

[earlbrown]

I do. Any bore between 2.500" and 5.500".


I don't recommend a STD bore on anything but a brand new NOS block though.

 

[Steve V]

Thanks guys for the replies ! This is a stock rebuild pretty much except for the turbo i want and also the intake porting and throttle body boring. I'm only looking for maybe 400hp This is what i got so far for a list. Stock crank has been ground 10\10, block is standard bore, why bore it if not needed? I have heard stock pistons will go 9's?. All these parts I got for this build came in a package with two 109 blocks, stock heads rebuilt, gasket set Fel pro, Comp Cams flat tappet cam,springs and lifters all new, new stock turbo pistons, 18 stock rods, lower intake and more, more, more... Here's my list Please take a look any advice would be appreciated.

1987 Buick GN Build; Portland Oregon West Coast
Machining and balancing B&M Engines Portland

1987 109 Block- standard bore, honed 45*

Main Bearings- King Bearings- $40 10\10
Rod Bearings- King $30.00 10\10
I've heard good things about these bearing?? Yes No?


Camshaft bearings-
TA_1557, 231 V6 with 20 Bolt oil pan. Hardened, Dual Groove, Dual Feed.
Price: $59.25

Pistons- new Stock Std-Already Have

Piston Rings-Moly-TA_V1635 standard 99.00

Rods- Stock- Reconditioned B&M Engines

Crankshaft- Stock Turbo rolled fillets, Turned 10\10

Cam- Comp Cam ? Have to check

Cam thrush button-TA_ROL150A
231-252 V6 Spring Type Cam Bumper $15.95

Flat Tappet lifters- new Comp Cams

Valve springs- Comp cams? Have to check lbs

pushrods new- stock

Heads- stock- reconditioned- Valves ? have to check, already done

Timing cover- new-not sure what make have to check, have two. If its cheap chinese throw it away? Look at the pocket-search this forum for Earl's rebuild thread.
New oil pump drive

Double row timing chain look new--check for slack--do NOT run a tensioner on a double roller

Oil Pan- stock baffled- no gasket, the Right Stuff sealer--see reply below

Intake lower- Ported? Yes\No?, Remove EGR? looks to been half-way removed. Send to Weber? $325.00 Waist to port stock intake at your power level spend $$$ elsewhere

Upper Plemun PTE= Polished

Throttle body- stock-bored 62mm Throttle body.com

Headers- Need-Stock or TA Both good options

Coils- stock
Computer chip- some aftermarket chip, have to check

Turbo-?? No Turbo yet Would like a 3'' Vband exhaust flange, easy downpipe build my own.

Fuel Pump-inline,filter-gauge

Fuel regulator Stock or

fuel injectors, no sure have stock but need to be reconditioned-- By new 60's work from stock to 10's

Oil pick up tube- need
TA_1520D
231-300-350'68 5/8"PICKUP TUBE $29.00

the right stuff pan sealer--all available gaskets will work with some attention to detail, I prefer Cometic it's very forgiving and does not leak.


V6 RIGHT TIMING CHAIN DAMPNER- TA_V1394R $18.95 not on a double roller!
Pushrods-

PTE Upper Plenum polished Cruz Performance $160.00

See my replies above

 

[87Turboid]

I do. Any bore between 2.500" and 5.500".


I don't recommend a STD bore on anything but a brand new NOS block though.

earlbrown- can you elaborate on that, your thinking I should bore to .010-.020 and new forged pistons? There is a very slight ridge at the top of the bore can barley feel it, the machinist thinks it will be fine?

 

[earlbrown]

That's because your machinist is used to being forced to go oversized in large increments. I can make you a set of .002 overs if that'll get rid of the dip there the top rings used to land. Or .003, or .004 or wherever the bore will clean up.

That's one of the cool things about my slugs, you don't have to pay for a bore job to clean up a bore. Just hone it clean and go from there. I can also move the piston up so if you're trying to get some quench and extra compression, you don't have to pay to deck the crap out of the block. Those two things alone practally pay for the slugs in machine shop savings.

 

[87Turboid]

Wow, great info. So how much are these slugs? Hand made forged?