11.94 @ 109.8 on a stock turbo

[murphster]

This is my second car to go 11s on a stock turbo in less than a year! I went 11s last year in my GN, see the details in the thread here. This time I did it in my clone with a somewhat different combo, although still relatively basic. I had a TE44 on it running 11.5s but put a stock turbo on a couple weeks ago to see if I could beat my GN's time.

The key to getting good times from a stocker is getting a good 60ft. For a run at 11s, a real low 1.6 60ft or better is key. Running alky also seems to work well with a stocker. This lets you run the high boost and still make power. I needed a little more boost from my clone than in the GN (24 vs 22), and I don't think I could have done it without the alky. I tried running a little more timing, bumping it up to 25/23 but it didn't seem to help so I left it at 23/21. I run a TurboTweak chip and always take out some 1st gear fuel to help get out of the hole. I also watch EGTs and the O2s and know the car pretty well so I kept pulling fuel until I was at 740s O2s and high 1500 EGTs at the top end of the track. With less fuel the car doesn't pick up any and goes slower if its any richer. I shift at 5200 rpm and the temps were at 59-60 degrees when the runs were made. I was launching off a transbrake at 3200-3300 rpm.

So, last night after three straight 12.0s, I ran an 11.94 and backed it up with another 11.94. Here are the 11.94 run breakdowns:

60'......1.609
1/8......7.506
mph.....89.58
1/4......11.942
mph.....109.80

60'......1.601
1/8......7.514
mph.....88.57
1/4......11.948
mph.....109.70

Engine:
-stock throttle body, intake, plenum
-stock pistons, rods, crank
-upgraded valve springs
-206/206 flat tappet Comp Cam with lifters kit from Cottons
-stock heads with valve job and mild porting
-RJC power plate
-MAF translator, 3" MAF, 3" intake pipe
-TR Custom Parts original style big mouth cold air kit
-HRpartsNstuff poly motor mounts, both sides

Fuel:
-50lb injectors
-Walbro hot wired fuel pump
-Alkycontrol alky kit dial set at 6, initial gain set to 1 o'clock, turn on at 5psi.
-VP Methanol
-93 pump gas

Transmission/Driveline:
-TH400 reverse manual valve body with Hipster transbrake
-TCI Streetfighter converter with heavy duty anti-balooning plate
-B&M Quicksilver shifter
-Eaton posi 30 spline
-C Clip Moser Axles 30 spline
-Moser/TA rear diff cover
-Denny's Driveshaft billet rear pinion yoke and U-joints
-upgraded driveshaft and TH400 trans yoke

Turbo/IC/exhaust:
-stock turbo, non-ported
-stock IC with dutt neck
-stock headers
-RJC boost controller
-3" SS THDP
-Hooker exhaust with Dynomax Ultra Flo mufflers
-DMH electric exhaust cutout cracked open during runs

Chip:
-TurboTweak 5.6 alky chip special order with no timing delay
-set to 23/21 base timing
-1st gear fuel trimmed 11% through chip

Suspension:
-stock replacement springs from Kirbans
-Bilstein shocks
-Stock upper control arms with Energy Suspension bushings
-Stock boxed lower control arms with Energy Suspension bushings
-HRpartsNstuff rear sway bar
-front sway bar removed
-air bags in rear springs at 0 psi
-tubular front upper control arms from Gbody parts.

Wheels:
-fronts are T Type rims with 235/60/15 Cooper Cobras, 36 psi
-rears are Vector rims with 255/60/15 Mickey Thompson drag radials, 22psi

Body, etc:
-aluminum inserts in front and rear bumpers
-mini-starter
-G body radiator
-Hurst line loc
-rear fender lips rolled
-weighs 3590lbs with me

 

[sweetv6]

cooooool

nice time for stock

like you say the 60' is the key to touch the magic "11"

i cant make better than 1.68

i will go to te44 this year

good work

claude

 

[vacuum 6]

Nice times.

 

[TURBO 6]

Awesome Murphster!

This almost proves my theory, I was thinking one could take a stock turbo/injector/intercooler car into the 11's with just an alky kit.
Do you feel there was a need for the 50# injectors?
I plan on trying this with just an alky kit on an otherwise stock car. Of course, the basic mods~fuel pump, hotwire, scantool, tires, gutted converter, ect.

 

[murphster]

I had the 50# injectors in there since I had been running a TE44 lately. I ran 36# injectors in my GN with room to spare on its 11 sec runs. I've run 30# injectors with alky in the past with no problem with a stocker, but I wasn't running as fast, only mid 12s. I think you'll be fine with 30# injectors as long as you are running an efficient converter to keep the rpms down. You could also run a 27" tire like I have been to help keep the rpms a little lower. With a stockish injector you'll probably just run them 100% and use the alky to fine tune the fueling.

I think I've got the stock turbo combos down pretty good now. The only thing that really surprised me was that the TH400 and converter I was using didn't hurt the mph more versus the 2004R and restalled D5 I had in the GN. The TCI converter is pretty tight though. Besides a good 60ft, alky, and removing excess weight....... a stock or small cam combined with a tight converter to keep the rpms down might be part of the combo to put the stock turbo in the sweet spot. A third car in my area that also went 11s on a stock turbo had a stock cam and D5 converter in it. A friends car used to go 12.0s on a stock turbo when it had a stock cam, but didn't go faster last year with heads and bigger cam even though it can go bottom 11s on a TE44. His converter also is not as tight as it used to be.

 

[murphster]

Two things to edit from my combo:

- F Body radiator, not a G Body
- weighs 3690lbs with me, not 3590lbs

Interestingly, my clone weighed within 10lbs of what my GN weighed when it ran 11.97 at 3682lbs. With lighter Centerline rims, the clone weighed 3660lbs with me last week.

 

[pacecarta]

0n my 12.0 run the engine was stock 135K mi except for the valvesprings and injectors (went to 50s for same reason as murph.. was runing a ta49 so needed the fuel for low 11s and back then 50s were as big as you could go on stock ecm
i did have razor alky , rjc plate , 62 TB , 2800 converter ,3" downpipe and a duttneck ic , walbro pump/ hotwire
as for weight i was 3600 with only changes from stock being alum bumper supports and no spare (full option hardtop GN)
i was on 26" mickey drs on 16" gtas , the 27" would have been perfect since i was trapping 109 but they didnt exist back then

given murphs runs were at 60 degrees theres no doubt there is some chance for better times with cooler air

 

[SilverBulletGN]

Murphster, nice job and thanks for sharing your info. It does help other members in giving them Ideas.

 

[jasjamz]

Nice runs! Thanks for sharing in detail!

 

[TurboBuick86]

glad to see my stock turbo is still running hard !!! great numbers man!!

 

[topfuel]

Ughh...I've run 12.0 on the stock stuff with a 1.59 in the 60 ft, but have never been able to break into the elevens.
nice job!

 

[Little6pack]

EXCELLENT!

By looking at your (VERY HELPFULL detailed info). I think I may have found what mine lacks.

A good 60 ft (I suck at that)
and bigger injectors.

 

[Royal-T-Ltd]

Awesome runs!!!!

can you share some details on launch technique.... my 60fts suk:redface:

do you launch by RPM or boost? Do you footbrake or transbrake?

thanks

 

[Grumpy]

Good to see guys showing all the "newbie's" a Buick can still run 11s with a stock turbo. I still think of buying another Buick to see how fast ya can go with the new technology "stuff" with a relatively stock motored car

 

[Royal-T-Ltd]

<snip> I still think of buying another Buick to see how fast ya can go with the new technology "stuff" with a relatively stock motored car

Dont just talk about it do it.... do it....

 

[murphster]

can you share some details on launch technique.... my 60fts suk:redface:

do you launch by RPM or boost? Do you footbrake or transbrake?

thanks

I used both footbrake and transbrake. I find its easier to launch with rpm, but boost is ok too as long as you are consistent. From a previous post I made last year regarding launching on the footbrake:

"When trying to get the best ETs and 60fts, its real hard to cut a good reaction time until you have lots of experience or else a boost controller or rev limiter like a 2 step. For now, don't worry about the reaction time and concentrate on getting the best possible launch.

I've always got the best launches by leaving when I hit a certain boost level and not holding it there, leaving before the car totally rises up on the suspension. After you've staged give it about half throttle or so while pressing the foot brake all the way, just enough to build boost. When you get to your desired boost, give it full throttle and release the brake at the same time, maybe giving it full throttle a fraction before you release the brake. This will also flash the converter and let you leave with more boost.

Getting a line lock lets you release the rear brakes during the burnout, leaving them cold so that they will hold more boost when you stage. Without a line lock, try not to hold the brakes too hard, just enough so that the fronts hold and the rear tires will spin. Having good pads, drums, and good adjustment on the rear brakes will help you hold enough boost on the line. I've been able to get 1.5 60fts off the footbrake on MT DRs with no other suspension mods then poly bushings in the rear control arms.

The main thing is not to sit there with the boost right at the limit. So if you want to leave at 3psi, as soon as the boost hits 3psi, floor it and go. Who cares if you red light or have a bad reaction time on test and tune nights, just leave when you hit your number. Try leaving at different boost levels to see what your car likes and can handle. On days with a good track you can try leaving a little harder each time."

Launching on a transbrake is easier in that you don't need to worry about pushing through the lights or having the car rise up while staging. If you have good stuff on the suspension and enough tire, you should hook pretty good on a tbrake.

I've also found that having too much air in the airbags can sometimes make the car unload and spin when on drag radials. Usually there is air in the airbags to prevent rubbing, so you are in a catch 22. Better to try and roll the fender lips or get the backspacing right so you can air out of the airbags. I have had good success with just using new poly bushings in all of the rear controls arms, even with stock swaybars. With an HR rear swaybar, the launch is more consistent even when in less than optimal track conditions.

Having the tune right is also good. Being overly rich can make the car a dog out of the hole. You can still keep it rich on the top end for safety while leaning it out down low.

While all these things are second nature to me now, for others hopefully this will be useful.

 

[Little6pack]

I still think of buying another Buick to see how fast ya can go

Buy mine and take me out of my misery. In the hands of You, Millisa & Russ you could do wonders with my car.

 

[RatFink]

NICE................:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

 

[Blazer406]

Props to you.

Many a turbo Buick owner strives for that 11 sec slip..... some never get it....... and you did it with a stock turbo..... congrats.

 

[Grumpy]

Buy mine and take me out of my misery. In the hands of You, Millisa & Russ you could do wonders with my car.

ya but I only have $1500. Wife won't let me spend anymore