180 out?

[counterman]

After discovering that my genuine Tiawanese Pioneer timing cover was cracked, allowing for a substantial oil leak, I replaced the bad cover with my oem GM piece. No more leaks, but the motor doesn't want to rev. It stumbles when I give it throttle even in Park. Oil pressure is super. I reckon that I am 180 degrees out on the cam sensor. What are typical symptoms of being 180 off, if I might ask? Thanks a million, Counterman.

 

[mikestertwo]

It won't run if it's 180 out but it could be off.

 

[ChrisCairns]

Read this....

Cam Sensor Information

Number 12 answers your question.

 

[m233roller]

Counterman,
It will run 180 out and about the only symptons are a bad idle, a stumble off idle and will sometimes kick back on the starter when starting the car. Ask me how I know ?? :frown: :frown:

 

[Pronto]

Counterman,
It will run 180 out and about the only symptons are a bad idle, a stumble off idle and will sometimes kick back on the starter when starting the car. Ask me how I know ?? :frown: :frown:

+1 My friend had that same issue. Stumble off idle. 180 out.

 

[counterman]

Thanks, gents. I suppose I'll be retiming the old girl. As usual, you have been more than helpful. Thanks, again, Counterman.

 

[bmackinnon]

Ya know, I'm thinking my cam sensor may be 180 out. Every once in a great while, it will give a good backfire instead of starting, especially if I have had the orange wire disconnected prior to starting. The engine has maybe 2500 miles on it since it was rebuilt by the original owner in 1996 and it has always idled like crap since I bought it in '97. I've used the stock chip, an old kenne bell 9006(?), and a Thrasher which remains in it. The thrasher is supposed to have a 'glass smooth' idle, and it's actually better than the other chips, but glass smooth it's not. It idle hunts all over the place, and idles pretty inconsistantly most of the time. Sometimes it idles pretty well, but only sometimes. I've done all the IAC reset, tps set, played w/ the FP, etc, etc. I have no codes, and the scantool numbers are reasonable. It DOES seem to have a pretty noticible tip-in stumble, and is sort of lazy to spool. So my question is this....

What would you guys recommend as the easiest way to VERIFY the cam sensor setting? I'm ASSuming I could get it to #1 TDC, and pop the cap and see where the sensor is positioned? Is there a way to verify #1 TDC on the compression stroke without pulling the valve cover? And which way should the sensor be pointing? I guess if I find it's NOT out by 180, I should go ahead and finish off the setting procedure that gnttype specifies??, as maybe it could still be igniting the correct cyl, but fueling the wrong one? Sorry for the book, sometimes I think as I type...:wink: Thanks in advance, your thoughts will be much appreciated....

 

[SHADOWII]

Remove the ....

sparkplug, place your finger over the hole while some one "bumps" the starter. when it reaches the compression stroke, it will push your finger away.

 

[8AV8]

Ya know, I'm thinking my cam sensor may be 180 out. Every once in a great while, it will give a good backfire instead of starting, especially if I have had the orange wire disconnected prior to starting. The engine has maybe 2500 miles on it since it was rebuilt by the original owner in 1996 and it has always idled like crap since I bought it in '97. I've used the stock chip, an old kenne bell 9006(?), and a Thrasher which remains in it. The thrasher is supposed to have a 'glass smooth' idle, and it's actually better than the other chips, but glass smooth it's not. It idle hunts all over the place, and idles pretty inconsistantly most of the time. Sometimes it idles pretty well, but only sometimes. I've done all the IAC reset, tps set, played w/ the FP, etc, etc. I have no codes, and the scantool numbers are reasonable. It DOES seem to have a pretty noticible tip-in stumble, and is sort of lazy to spool. So my question is this....

What would you guys recommend as the easiest way to VERIFY the cam sensor setting? I'm ASSuming I could get it to #1 TDC, and pop the cap and see where the sensor is positioned? Is there a way to verify #1 TDC on the compression stroke without pulling the valve cover? And which way should the sensor be pointing? I guess if I find it's NOT out by 180, I should go ahead and finish off the setting procedure that gnttype specifies??, as maybe it could still be igniting the correct cyl, but fueling the wrong one? Sorry for the book, sometimes I think as I type...:wink: Thanks in advance, your thoughts will be much appreciated....

What inj's? Are the chips for those inj"s? IMHO, Get a TurboTweak chip...best idle you'll find. Have you checked for vac leaks? I don't think you would be cruising around 180 out w/o some serious issues with drivability.

 

[bmackinnon]

What inj's? Are the chips for those inj"s? IMHO, Get a TurboTweak chip...best idle you'll find. Have you checked for vac leaks? I don't think you would be cruising around 180 out w/o some serious issues with drivability.

Stock inj's, chips for same. I don't think I have any vac leaks... I pulled the hose to the 3-way check valve loose a couple days ago, and it went 'phewwww' as the vacuum released... after sitting for a day or two. I DO have an audible exhaust leak... DS header cracked again, I think, which 'may' be my issue. It's not a massive leak, but it's there. I've read on gnttype where people had run a long time 180 out, never realizing it. The ign. timing is not affected by being 180 out, but the fueling ends up working like batch fire, with fuel puddling in the intake, then getting sucked out by the cylinders as they need it. Will still run 'OK', which it does. I've got the engine at 25* ATDC now, and will report back as soon as figure out how to get the ^&)%#ing bolt loose for the cam sensor and check it. As far as the TT chip, yes, that's probably my next purchase. That being said, I believe the idle strategy in Eric's chips is the same or very similar as the Thrasher... open loop? and a tad fat? From all the research I've done, I believe the Thrasher would probably be the #2 choice, next to the TT, for all around, grocery-getting TR's. I believe there's some others here that would tend to agree? But all the raving about TT has got me wanting one!! I'll let ya' know on the cam sensor... Thanks for the response!

 

[bmackinnon]

sparkplug, place your finger over the hole while some one "bumps" the starter. when it reaches the compression stroke, it will push your finger away.

Reminder to self.... never stick finger in sparkplug hole while WIFE 'bumps' starter, turning motor over 2-3 times!!! To make matters worse it tried to start/backfire even though the orange wire was disconnected! Banged my elbow yanking my finger!! God love her....... :biggrin:

 

[INEEDAGN]

You know, now you have ME thinking about this. My car has similar poor idle symptoms. Been that way forever, especially when cold. Used to have a bad tip in stumble too, until I played with the cam sensor adjustment. It made a noticeable difference but I never popped the cap off to see where it was positioned. My engine has also been apart before I bought it. I got WOT tuned pretty decent but I've always thought it should idle better.
I guees it's not that hard to check. Doubt it's out 180 but you never know.

 

[bmackinnon]

INEEDAGN, and others who care,
Well, mine WASN'T 180 out. It was pretty close to correct. I set it exactly at 25* ATDC per the gnttype procedure. I noticed it seemed to idle real nice when I fired it up cold after the adjustment, but mine usually idles pretty good cold, then starts hunting around after it's warmed up. I didn't let it warm up this time, and instead yanked the ecu so I could do the mod to install Direct Scan. After an hour or more of swabbing the ecu card with buzz-inducing chemicals, I think I've got all the coating off the terminals. :biggrin: Anyway, you said you had 'played' with your cam sensor adjustment and improved your tip-in stumble? FWIW, if it checks out with the voltmeter per gnttype procedure, it CAN'T be 180 out. You can check it visually, also.... the sensor in the cap lines up with the wires coming out of the cap. So, if you position the motor to 25* ATDC, you can pull the cap and see if the leading edge of the window on the ring lines up with where the wires come out of the cap (ie. the sensor). If so, then it's set correctly, or very close. Clear as mud?? :tongue: I'm gonna' start a new 'crappy idle' thread after I get some good DS data. See you there??

 

[INEEDAGN]

Yeah after reading into it more on GNTTYPE.org i'm pretty sure I got it right. Still hate the idle, especially when cold. Probably just live with it. Doesn't move in the winter anyway.