1st Track Outing - Need tuning advise

[OneQuikV6]

Well, I just got back from KCIR is KC following my first outing with th enew T-Type. I think I'm a bit disappointed. I'll try and make this brief as to not bore anyone, and just give the important stuff.

Car has a stock motor with a recent rebuild. Stock turbo/IC and newly installed low mileage BRF tranny. Mod are as follows:

XP Pump with Casper's Hotwire kit
NEW Blue Top Injectors
K&N with solid MAF pipe
Billet AFPR with rail gauge
Auburn Posi
No Cat with 3" single shot with 3" MagnaFlow Muffler
Tie Down
Jim Testa 92 Octane Chip
All the spring cleaning stuff done per the GNTTYPE page...Mobil 1, yada yada, all new filters, etc

Tune tonight was as follows for the first run: (about 60-70 degrees ambient throughout the night)

FP - ~43-4 line off
Boost - 22-23
Sunoco 112 leaded (10 gallons mixed with ~1/4 tank 92.
Left in D with not much boost first time out

This yeilded the following times:

R/T - .988 - yeah I know
60ft - 2.099
1/8 - 8.687
1/4 - 13.471
MPH - 102.04

Basically 0 knock retard (tickled the ANS audible gauge once at the end of the track)
O2's in the low to mid 800's

So....what in the hell am I doing wrong?

This was the best time I had tonight...ranging from a 14.01 (spun badly leaving the line) to a couple of 13.7's at about 100 mph.

I'm not totally clueless here, but darn, these are stock TR times.

Any comments would be highly appreciated!!

BTW, car runs very well over all. Idles like a caddy, and is a great running car as a whole.

 

[azgn]

I think those are the times you should expect...you basically have a stock car except for fuel upgrades...it will go faster when you learn how to drive and tune (more boost, better launches, etc)

what did you think it should run?

 

[OneQuikV6]

Originally posted by azgn
I think those are the times you should expect...you basically have a stock car except for fuel upgrades...it will go faster when you learn how to drive and tune (more boost, better launches, etc)

what did you think it should run?

Well, with a 2.09 60ft, I'd hope for a 12 with slicks. It just seems that most stockish cars are in the 12's. I guess the MPH worries me more than the actual ET. The driving I can fix in time, the MPH is the indicator of how much power I'm putting out..so...I guess I thought it be in the 12's.

 

[UNGN]

92 chips are for 92 gas. Try a Thrasher 108 next time with TCC lockup and 19-20 psi of boost. The best $25 you'll will spend. Set the FP to 45 psi and run a 12, even with 2.1 60fts. Stock turbo likes timing, not boost.

For traction...right side air bag at 20-25 psi and 20-24 psi in your tires (I'm assuming they are regular radials)

 

[OneQuikV6]

Originally posted by UNGN
92 chips are for 92 gas. Try a Thrasher 108 next time with TCC lockup and 19-20 psi of boost. The best $25 you'll will spend. Set the FP to 45 psi and run a 12, even with 2.1 60fts. Stock turbo likes timing, not boost.

For traction...right side air bag at 20-25 psi and 20-24 psi in your tires (I'm assuming they are regular radials)

I had actually wondered if I was running too much boost for the stock turbo. I'll try the Thrasher (had a stock injector 92 Thrasher and liked it).

I was just frustrated after reading Ken mosher's recipie hearing him talk about 12.30's at 109 or so with no more than I had done. Hell, that's 7 mph better than my best.

 

[UNGN]

That T92 won't be much better for mph than the chip you are using. Timing is the key, here.

For a stock car to mph at 110+ mph it NEEDs the following:

Race Chip.
Race gas.
New Valve springs.
Locked up torque converter.
Good flowing exhaust, from the turbo back.
true 26" tall tires (28" tires would be even better)
18-21 psi of boost.

The above plus a good condition car that can run above 100 without any of the above, will run 110 when the above are done.

 

[OneQuikV6]

Originally posted by UNGN
That T92 won't be much better for mph than the chip you are using. Timing is the key, here.

For a stock car to mph at 110+ mph it NEEDs the following:

Race Chip.
Race gas.
New Valve springs.
Locked up torque converter.
Good flowing exhaust, from the turbo back.
true 26" tall tires (28" tires would be even better)
18-21 psi of boost.

The above plus a good condition car that can run above 100 without any of the above, will run 110 when the above are done.

Well, it sounds like I have some things to work on then

A few things are already done:

Ran 112 Sunoco tonight

With the exception of the DP, the exhaust is 3" all the way back and a straight through design 3" muffler.

Motor has 22K on it. Still think I should do the springs?

What's a respectable 60ft on street radials? (I have 245/60/15's)

BTW...thanks for the help guys!!! I remember when I was doing the M*stang thing, I got so tired of answering the basic questions over and over again for every newbie that came into the group...so I appreciate everyone's patience!

 

[UNGN]

I would guess the TCC lockup will give you 2 mph and a race chip will give your 4 mph, so there is 6 of the missing 7 mph for $30. ($25 for chip+$5 for switch/wire form radioshack)

If you order a T108 with TCC lockup programmed in, you save $5 on a switch.

To get to 110 from 108, you need to port your turbo elbow, do the valve springs and tune some more to get the O2's into the 700's. With thrashers, tune by adding octane in response to knock, leaving the FP alone.

 

[8UWITH6]

Those times are not bad at all man. Look at my T-type's times below in my sig. 13.78 was in the same trim you were in tonight. Street chip, xylene and 17psi. Id say your doing just fine. But heres some things to do:

1. Hows your rear suspension? Shocks? Any mods?
2. Were you locking your converter? I always lock my converter at the track and it does help mph and et.
3. Get that street chip out of your race car! Just kidding....get a good race chip. I really didnt like the Thrasher 108, if you want to borrow mine you may. I also have a Jay Carter 110 if you want to try that also.
4. Crank that boost to 20-22psi or so with a race chip and of course monitor your scantool.
5. Make sure your FP is set right, and the car is tuned in prior to going to the track. I do that so I can work on my driving, not my tuning.

Once you get going, you shouldnt have any trouble catching my GN's times. Both my cars are mostly stock. This year though, Im gonna be pushing the GN into the 11s with the stock turbo and IC. We will see........arent these cars fun?

 

[turbojimmy]

Definitely get a chip with more timing. You shouldn't need the 22-23#s of boost to squeak into the 12s with a 100-108 octane chip. I'd talk to Jim about burning you another one - he's burns a nice chip.

I was checking out some of my timeslips. Looks like I picked up 4 MPH between a 92 octane Thrasher and a 100 octane Thrasher. The only other change was a FP hotwire (was running out of gas once I moved to the "faster" chip).

If you can fix your 60' time, you'll be better off, too. But with a higher timing chip you should be able to dip into the 12s even with a 2.0 60'.

Good luck,
Jim

 

[1ARUNEM]

With a good launch, you should be able to see high 1.8 to low 1.9 short times on street tires..

Let's also not forget that according to your first post, you had nearly 15 gallons of fuel in the car. That is alot of extra weight.

For one of your first times, i'd say you did well and have a very good starting point..

 

[strikeeagle]

Your trans is slipping. No way can a TR run 22-23 PSI and no knock and 13.4 @ 102...

 

[wicked6]

If that is the stock Turbo and running 22+ #boost your over the max effeciency of your turbo. At that point you are running hot air and your IC can not bring the temp down. I would run with 20# of boost 26+ degrees timing. You will be surprised!!! The higher the degree timing and the 20# of boost will net you results.

Don't worry about the 60's and your ET just start with your trap speed. Once you max your trap speed then start practicing on your launch more and your 60's and ET will follow.


Some cars like to be rich, others like to be lean. As long as there is 0KR you will be alright. Make a couple passes and average it out. Then increase FP some and make a couple more. See if your trap speed goes up or down. Keep on doing this until your trap speed stops going up and ends up decreasing. That is when you have found your tune. Be patient and do not move to quickly, like I did.

 

[OneQuikV6]

Well, thanks for all the replies! With the exception of StrikeEagle, most everything I read made sense. Seems like i was adding to the wrong side of the equation adding more boost. I had just squared away the new chip for the blue tops I recently installed, so now I need to do the race chip next.

The only problem for me is that there is no easily available race gas available in my area so that I can do the tuning at home. I agree that I need to do the tuning at home, and work on driving at the track...but tuning with a race chip will be hard once the half tank I have in now is gone

I WAS the fastest TR there though if tha stands for anything. There was even a sharp TTA that was in the low 14's high 13's.

This car is a blast

 

[strikeeagle]

Well, you know, somebody's got to swim against the tide, don't they?

What I'd hoped you'd get out of my earlier post was that I don't see how a TR can run as much as 22-23 PSI and run that slow. 23 PSI is alot of HP, so where's it going? And I don't think it's a matter of timing, although a street chip is a poor if not risky choice for the strip . I mean, it's not like higher timing is going to lop a half second of your ET, is it? And your performance is off a-t l-e-a-s-t that much.

No malice, but it sounds to me like you shouldn't be discounting anybody's advice at this juncture. And advice doesn't strictly come in the form of "it's gotta be your chip." Sometimes it's tucked between the lines.

Well, good luck anyway.

 

[1badTTA]

OK, I have to throw my $.02 in here.

Looking at my sig, I am not too far off with the mods from you, basically stock except for tuning aids. If you look at my MPH in my sig it obviously doesn't relate to my ET which should have been a mid 12. I was in a similiar tune with 41.5#FP giving me .810-.760 O2 volts (droping lower in each gear) but I was only running 16psi on a stock turbo. How you ask. With a chip that runs 26deg of timing. The stock turbo is incredibly efficient at that pressure and makes great power with lots of timing and good gas. I was getting about 3 deg of retard shifting into 3rd since I need a tie down to keep my DP from hitting.

I haven't been back to the track lately to see what I can get for an ET, but when I do, I am sure I will finally get my 12 second timeslip I have been wanting.

Another thing you may want to do is install alky injection so you can tune whenever you want without having to go buy $5 a gallon gas just to cruise around on.

 

[OneQuikV6]

Originally posted by 1badTTA
OK, I have to throw my $.02 in here.

Looking at my sig, I am not too far off with the mods from you, basically stock except for tuning aids. If you look at my MPH in my sig it obviously doesn't relate to my ET which should have been a mid 12. I was in a similiar tune with 41.5#FP giving me .810-.760 O2 volts (droping lower in each gear) but I was only running 16psi on a stock turbo. How you ask. With a chip that runs 26deg of timing. The stock turbo is incredibly efficient at that pressure and makes great power with lots of timing and good gas. I was getting about 3 deg of retard shifting into 3rd since I need a tie down to keep my DP from hitting.

I haven't been back to the track lately to see what I can get for an ET, but when I do, I am sure I will finally get my 12 second timeslip I have been wanting.

Another thing you may want to do is install alky injection so you can tune whenever you want without having to go buy $5 a gallon gas just to cruise around on.

Good Advice! I have came to the conclusion that I was really overdoing the boost. I was more concerned with the low MPH than the actual ET. It's got a 12 in it even at 102 provided I run slicks, so with th echip burned to take advantage of the 112 I was running and the boost at 18-20, I would hope I gt better results 'Tis a learning experience...but it sure is fun!!

 

[OneQuikV6]

Originally posted by strikeeagle
Well, you know, somebody's got to swim against the tide, don't they?

What I'd hoped you'd get out of my earlier post was that I don't see how a TR can run as much as 22-23 PSI and run that slow. 23 PSI is alot of HP, so where's it going? And I don't think it's a matter of timing, although a street chip is a poor if not risky choice for the strip . I mean, it's not like higher timing is going to lop a half second of your ET, is it? And your performance is off a-t l-e-a-s-t that much.

No malice, but it sounds to me like you shouldn't be discounting anybody's advice at this juncture. And advice doesn't strictly come in the form of "it's gotta be your chip." Sometimes it's tucked between the lines.

Well, good luck anyway.

Hey,

Not discounting at all, and I'm sorry if it came across that way

I only mean that they have a point about the boost being too high, and I knew that going in, I just overlooked it. The turbo is no longer efficiently making boost at the levels I was making last night. I'm sure all it does is superheat the air at those levels.

The trans is in good condition and shifts well...at least I couldn't perceive any slippage. Gonna start with a race chip from Jim Testa, lowering the boost to 18-20 and run stickier tires next time.

Thanks!