2004R Output shaft bearing

[Dan_Lebherz]

I am running a BTO 2004R in my 1964 Chevy II Station Wagon.
Yesterday I was on my way to the track and noticed white smoke coming from the rear of my car. I pulled over to check on it and noticed the leakage from the area of the rear output shaft seal on the trans. It was getting on the exhaust pipes and burning off causing the smoke. I added a little ATF to the trans and continued on my way. When I got to the track i noticed that the rear seal had come out and was riding on the yoke. I used a ratchet extension to tap the seal back into place. I made the first run with no adverse affects noticed. When I made the second run I noticed smoke coming from the back of my car again as I passed the shut down area. I had assumed the seal had come back out. when I stopped to check, the seal was still in place. After the car cooled down I put the trans in neutral and applied pressure on the drive shaft with my foot. I could detect what I would call excessive play in the output shaft. I have been running this trans for about 3 years and have probably put less than 10,000 miles on it. I have, however, made 45 trips to the track and made nearly 190 passes on the trans.

Are the rear output shaft bearing replaceable with the trans in the car?
Source?
Cost?
Difficulty?
Special tools required?
Other things to focus on to prevent from happening again?

 

[Nordbert]

Check out the following link. It contains a
picture of the tool needed to remove and install the tail housing bushing while the transmission is assembled. I have used one and it works. Your local transmission
shop may have one. BTW, what is the condition of your yoke?
http://automotivetools.com/cgi-loca...-A.html?L+scstore+jblf7273ff198619+1117555224

 

[Dan_Lebherz]

The rear output shaft is supported by a bushing and not a bearing?!!! I did not know that.

Any idea of where I might be able to find an exploded view of one of these transmissions?

I don't know the condition of the yoke. I have not removed the driveshaft yet.

Should I suspect damage?

 

[petesgn]

Originally posted by Dan_Lebherz


Any idea of where I might be able to find an exploded view of one of these transmissions?

http://www.transtarindustries.com/FileStore/pdf/TH200-4R 04 W.pdf


Let me know if this link works for you.

 

[77 cruiser]

Hopefully this works

http://webpages.charter.net/77cruiser/bushing.rtf

 

[77 cruiser]

Worked for me & you beat me to the draw.

 

[Dan_Lebherz]

Thanks a bunch guys!

 

[petesgn]

Originally posted by 77 cruiser
Worked for me & you beat me to the draw.

Only by 7 mins

 

[Dan_Lebherz]

Anyone care to guess how much end play is acceptable with the tailshaft seal removed and the yoke out?

 

[77 cruiser]

End play shouldn't be much. side play can be quite a bit with the yoke removed.

 

[Dan_Lebherz]

Gotcha, Side play is what I was referring to.

I took the car to a trans shop today. They took a quick look and agreed that it was probably a bad bushing. He has the tool needed. He told me to expect to pay about $100 plus parts. If I were to buy the puller, it is about $100. He is probably getting me a bit but I have to get it fixed. He will be removing the DS and letting me take it to another shop to have it balanced, have new U joints install and have a new yoke installed for $109 plus tax.

 

[Dan_Lebherz]

OK, so here is what has transpired since I originally posted this.

After pulling the DS last Tues night and seeing the severely galled yoke, I took the car up to the Cottman Trans shop about 5 miles from my house on Wednesday afternoon. Car still ran fine and the trans shifted fine.

They took a quick look at it by jacking it up and wiggling the driveshaft like I had done. They agreed that the rear bushing was bad. The guy commented that yes, without the yoke in place there is a surprising amount of slop in the tail shaft, but it would not necessarily mean there was any additional problems. The new seal I had put in was already chewed up. I couldn't leave the car right then but I took it back to leave it a couple hours later. He had the proper tool at his other shop, would bring it back and do the job. That was Wednesday, late.

Thursday morning they pulled the DS for me so I could take it downtown to another shop to have new Ujoints and a new yoke put on and have it straightened and balanced. They did nto have the exact same yoke but had one that was exactly 1/2" longer. I had them put that one on as I was a little concerned that mine may have been a little too short and that could have caused or contributed to the problem. I dropped the shaft back off at about 3:30 on Thursday afternoon, but they hadn't touched the car again. They did not touch it Friday or Saturday either as the tool had not arrived. I was out of town over the weekend. I called Monday AM and they hadn't touched it yet but said the tool and parts were there and it would be done by 5:00 PM.

I went to pick it up and paid $128.46 for it, like $56 in parts including bushing, seal, pan gasket, and fluid, (but no new filter) and $65 for labor. Really not unreasonable, I thought.

I pulled out of their drive and it would not shift. Tried several times and once you get beyond a few thousand rpm, it is as if it is free wheeling, you can rev it in gear. I immediately went back and the guy said it shifted fine for him, then admitted that it did the first time but might not have the second time.

We assumed that when he pulled the filter and put it back in, maybe it did not seat and it was sucking air. Today he pulled the pan again and put a new filter on it and put it back together but he said it still would not shift.

They insist that all they did was replace the bushing and change the fluid and that nothing they did could have caused this problem. I have never had this problem b/4, so I am curious if they could have screwed something up either by accident or on purpose OR if running it with the bad bushing could have screwed up the TC, the front pump or something else?

What is the most likely candidate part or parts that should be looked at?

I am moving in 8 days and will now likely be stuck having them fix whatever they tell me the problem is.

Thanks for you comments and/or suggestions.

Dan_Lebherz

 

[Dan_Lebherz]

Update:

He claimed he put everything back exactly as it was and didn't mess with the TV.

I had changed the fluid at the end of last season, probably in October.
The fluid was not burned. There were some metal shavings in the pan from the bearing and yoke, but he indicated that he didn't think it was bad. I have a fairly large washer shapped magnet in the bottom of the pan. He said that was pretty well covered.
I am wishing I had taken it someplace else, but I was in a bind and didn't want to drive it any more than necessary.

Apparently this is a new (15 months) location for a guy that has another shop in Washington, PA - about an hour away. The owner is struggleing with running back and forth between the two locations. They have not been able to keep a decent rebuilder at this site, so the R&R guy has been doing this stuff. He was supposed to put a pressure gauge on it this afternoon to see what he had. I called them at 4:00PM this afternoon and they still had not looked at it again yet.

Can anyone imagine how a slightly longer (1/2") yoke could cause this?

Interfering with the govenor?

Any thoughts/suggestions?

Thanks,
Dan_Lebherz

1964 Chevy II Station Wagon
355 SBC
TH2004R
3.73s

 

[Dan_Lebherz]

OK I got a call from the Tranny shop a while ago. They claim they found the problem. The govenor gear was stripped. He called around to find one and since mine has the green gear, instead of the normal white or red, the place that had it wanted $55 plus $35 to overnight it. Then he got a return call from the Chevy dealer a half mile away and they can have him one by tomorrow for $25. The pressure test was apparently OK, hopefully this gear will do the trick. I think this might be the same gear that drives the speedo driven gear, but I'm not sure. If it is, it could make sense that it could have become damaged with the way the tailshaft was moving around in there.

We'll see.

To anyone that actually knows anything about these transmissions....does this make sense and sound plausible?

Thanks,

 

[petesgn]

Yep

stripped gov gear would do it.

 

[Dan_Lebherz]

They replaced the govenor gear today and I picked the car up. Everything seems to be fine, except the speedometer which always read 11% high, now reads about 35% high. They again insist that they did nothing that could affect this. The govenor gear they took out was the green one. Green was not even listed on the parts sheet I got from this post. It only listed a red one and a white one. I have 26" tall rear tires and 3.73 gears.

Can anyone explain how this gear affects shift points. The reason I ask is my car has always shifted very early when left in auto mode. Would changing one of these gears affect this?

 

[77 cruiser]

No the gov. gear doesn't affect the shift points.

 

[Nordbert]

200-4r gov gear

Dan, do you have the tooth count of the green gov gear? My g-body 1986 speedo
gear usage chart for Chevrolet lists a 10T
green gear with a part # of 8639906. The
Buick chart lists a 10T as being purple???
with a part # of 8628838.
I paid $21.68 for my gov gear on 5-29-03 from GM. but it was for a 13T. I have the tire chart, but it shows factory installed
tire sizes and I don't know how tall they are. BTW, what is your rearend ratio?
And tire size? I think tire companies list the diameters on their websites.

 

[Dan_Lebherz]

What they took out is a green 14 tooth gear. What they put in was suppossedly the same. The part number on the bag it came in reads 8634934.

The exploded drawing and parts list that were posted on this site only show a 13 tooth white gear with a P/N of 8634934 and a 12 tooth white gear with a P/N of 8634935.

Does anyone know how the number of teeth affect the govenor or do the number of teeth on this end only affect the speedometer?

I am curious if they put in what they were supposed to or if they put one in for 2.73 rear gears.

My trans was originally built by Bow Tie Overdrives. they geared it for 3.36 gears and a 27" tall rear tire. I now have 3.73 gears and 26 or 27" rear tires. I cannot remember the size of the speedo driven gear. I will have to check.

I just re-read my own post. The part number on the bag they gave me matches the one for the 13 tooth white gear. Is it possible that they ordered by color and not by tooth count and color is not an accurate indicator of the correct gear?

 

[77 cruiser]

The no. of teeth only affect the speedo.
The colors might not tell the whole story.