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2004R Question

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6SENSE

Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2001
Messages
1,635
Need to know in which sequence does the 3-4 accumulator piston and spring get installed.
I have instructions from a shift kit that shows the piston going into the bore in the tranny first, then the spring (resting between the piston and the spacer plate).
I have a tranny manual that shows, for the 2004R, to put the spring in the bore first and the piston second. (In the manual, For the 7004R, it shows to do it the way the 2004R shift kit instructions show).
I think the way it came out of the tranny was how the 2004R shift kit and the 700R4 instructions in the manual show, but who is to say that the thing wasnt already in there wrong ? I just want to make sure. Thanks.
 
Install the 3-4 with the spring in first with the piston in last. This will firm up the 3-4 shift because the circuit becomes "empty" as the piston is at bottom of travel and fluid will be directed to the clutch instead of accumulating in the accumulator.
 
Thanks Eric. I guess I will be taking the pan down again.
Could that have anything to do with the fact that ever since I put in the shift kit instead of the late firm WOT shifts I was getting before, now they seem to be the exact opposite (early and kind of sliding through gears) ?
 
Uh, oh. I guess I'll wait for a tie breaker before taking the pan down.
Meanwhile, Anyone have any ideas on what I mentioned above about what the car is doing now?
 
Early & sliding shifts sound live TV cable adjustment or something got messed putting the kit in.

Jim
 
I was actually hoping that I did something wrong putting the kit in.
I took the pan down today to see if I could find anything. I dissassembled the accumulators and took off the valve body and made sure all the check balls were where they were supposed to be. Everything looked in order. The TV cable looks like it is functioning freely, and is adjusted correctly at the throttle body (although no matter how I adjust the darn thing it doesnt change how it shifts, which is weird).
Im trying to narrow it down with what I did when installing the kit. I dont know if one of the valves in the valve body could be stuck or if my question from before, the assembly of the 3-4 accumulator, would have anything to do with it. There isnt too much else that I did, besides the one plug I put in the 1-2 accumulator housing, the few holes I drilled larger in the seperator plate, and the couple check balls I left out. All of these things I double checked and were done just like the instructions said.
Any ideas, what would you check next? Id hate to yank the tranny out for a rebuild when it seems like somethng silly is the cause (In the morning the tranny shifts one way and after I put in the shift kit it shifts the exact opposite).
the governor wouldnt have anything to do with this would it?
Any comments and advise is much appreciated.
 
If you want to install the accumulator with the spring in first, this will eliminate the accumulator action. If you put it piston in first, it will soften the shift as it has to compress the spring while applying the clutch to take away the harshness of the shift. I install ALL 3-4 accumulators in spring first and no one has ever complained. Putting in a plug in the accumulator feed will render that accumulator useless also. That circuit becomes "empty" and all fluid goes to the clutch instead. Factory did accumulators both ways. Our 86 442 has the 3-4 with the spring in first. My TR's all had them piston in first and had shifts soft enough you could hear it shift, but not feel it.
 
Thanks Eric, you sound like you know your stuff. I will try and see what happens.
Let me ask you though, that 3-4 accumulator set up wouldnt have anything to do with the 1-2 shift, would it? I guess what I want to know is if you think that could have anything to do with my overall overly-soft shifting problem that just came about.
 
Did you get the accumulator housing for 1-2 torqued down and not tear the gasket (sits over the 3-4)? Is the pin hole in the piston round and not ovaled out? Does the piston have the actual rubber seal and not a teflon ring (square edge). Also make sure the plug you put into the accumulator housing is still there. Which valve body kit did you use? You can leave out the middle checkball in the valve body and that supplies more oil for second gear.
 
When I took it back apart to inspect everything the gasket was fine and I torqued all the bolts to approx. 10 ft. lbs.

The pin hole in the piston seemed fine as far as free movement on the pin. The 3-4 piston didnt seem like it moved around as freely in the bore as the 1-2 did in its housing.By hand it took some effort to move it. This may be another reason to flip the set up around?

The seal is whatever was factory, I assume. It looked like rubber, no square edge that I remember, but I will make sure when I take it apart again.

The plug is still in the housing.

The kit is a JW Performance 75002-2 from Postons.

As far as leaving out check balls. I left out the 4th accumulator check ball and the TV Exhaust check ball per instructions. I assume the middle one you are talking about is the 1-2 shift valve, and the instructions said to remove it if you have a 9" convertor. Should I go ahead and leave it out?

I called JW Performance today and they were steering me towards the TV valve in the valve body or the pressure regulator valve in the front pump. I dont know much about messing with the front pump, but the TV valve shouldnt be to bad considering this will be my third time taking out the valve body in the past few days!
I dont know exactly what Im looking for with the TV valve though, other than something stuck or binding? I dont know if the spring in there (there is a spring in there right?) would need to be replaced. The guy said the TV valve would cause the way that it shifted before and also the way it shifts now, I think he did say that he was surprised how it would change like it did though.

P.S. there isnt a problem with these gaskets getting wet from oil when Im taking this stuff apart again and again is there?

Also, sorry for such a long post and going on and on about this thing, but I do really appreciate youre guys help. Sincerely, THANK YOU.
 
Ok, I don't know about the JW kit, as I have never seen the instructions for it and never installed one of theirs.
I have reused gaskets on my personal trannies and had no problems.
If the pin hole in the accumulator is leaking enough fluid, it can cause soft shifting problems as it won't fill up and will have air pockets in it that keep refilling when it hits that circuit.
You can leave out the 2nd checkball and it will supply more oil to that ciruit instead of just going thru the smaller orifice.
Did a .471 or .500 TV valve come in the kit? It goes in the pump. I have seen a couple that the snap ring didn't seat in and it still held into the pump. Pressure was down across the entire operating range and took about 1/2 hour to find it. Most of the time they will pop out and fall into the pan and all pressure gets dropped there and you will know there is a problem.
Also, if it came with a bigger throttle valve, more than likely it should have come with a stiffer Line Bias spring (or blocker).
 
JW ........Sheesh....

First of all this is the 4th one (JW) kit I have seen in the last three weeks

What the hell do they know about a 2004r? They just put two (other co. kits together) figuring it will improve. trust me, if you have ever taken a JW 2004r apart you would buy nothing from them.
Thats first...

Second.
the accumulator goes piston first .
If you flip, the circuit fills the whole cavity with no piston pressure.
Trace the path. Piston in first with a 727 acc spring on top works the best. And , yes, if you block the hole with cup plug , no accumulation will occur. But if it shifts to 4th under lt to med throttle locked up with it plugged, you may be replacing back window. :)
So to review goes case piston spring, plate spring piston second gear acc cover. In that order from top to bottom. Wish I knew how to draw on here. :)

Bruce
WE4
www.PTSnctb.com
 
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