Mease Performance
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Randy was using the ESP front mount.
24 row Mease intercooler results
- Thread starter Nick Micale
- Start date
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Randy was using the ESP front mount.
Check this thread. It could settle alot of debates.
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=111887
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=111887
Mease Performance
Performance Fabrication/Supporting Vendor
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front mount
I think what most fail to understand here is that the size of the intercooler really DOES NOT matter. for example:
Lets look at the cottons front mount intercooler (basically the biggest available at this time (but not for long
)
Jc's front mount is 15" high on the header side of the intercooler (flow side-pressure) Ours is almost 19" high. Cottons intercooler has 1/4" tall tubes, whereas ours are about 5/16" we have 24 rows, he has I "believe" 20 rows.... at the flow side, our intercooler will flow better than the front mount....unit to unit, MINUS the piping, now there are 3 more 90 degree bends in the front mount's plumbing as compared to our stock location 24 row unit....at each bend @ approximately 20 psi you will lose about 1 psi boost in each bend, so minus 3 psi there.
Now lets look at the length of the tubes from header to header on the intercoolers. Cottons unit is 26-7" wide, whereas ours is 13.5" wide, about HALF the width of the front mount. When heated pressurized air reaches the intercooler tubes, and begins to become cooled by ambient air via heat transfer through the fins....there is some point along the line where the air simply cannot be cooled any further, with the MPE 24 row, 13.5" tube length is more than enough to provide cooling effectiveness, aka the almost 90% efficiencies we achieve. On the front mount, the other 13" of tube you have there is nothing but a restriction where airflow must be moved through.....useless size
# of tubes ALSO makes no damn difference when comparing intercooler "a" to intercooler "b" and "c" and so-on, type of tanks, necks, materials, design, all plays a part in the game here... also on the core design itself, height, width, thickness, # of fins per inch (fpi) internal and external also play a major part... Do NOT find yourself looking for any intercooler with the maximum # of tubes in its design, look at the overall picture.
Our intercooler may not be the most cost effective on the market, but to make it the best and come out on top.....we needed to raise the pricing.
-MPE RACING FABRICATION-
I think what most fail to understand here is that the size of the intercooler really DOES NOT matter. for example:
Lets look at the cottons front mount intercooler (basically the biggest available at this time (but not for long
)Jc's front mount is 15" high on the header side of the intercooler (flow side-pressure) Ours is almost 19" high. Cottons intercooler has 1/4" tall tubes, whereas ours are about 5/16" we have 24 rows, he has I "believe" 20 rows.... at the flow side, our intercooler will flow better than the front mount....unit to unit, MINUS the piping, now there are 3 more 90 degree bends in the front mount's plumbing as compared to our stock location 24 row unit....at each bend @ approximately 20 psi you will lose about 1 psi boost in each bend, so minus 3 psi there.
Now lets look at the length of the tubes from header to header on the intercoolers. Cottons unit is 26-7" wide, whereas ours is 13.5" wide, about HALF the width of the front mount. When heated pressurized air reaches the intercooler tubes, and begins to become cooled by ambient air via heat transfer through the fins....there is some point along the line where the air simply cannot be cooled any further, with the MPE 24 row, 13.5" tube length is more than enough to provide cooling effectiveness, aka the almost 90% efficiencies we achieve. On the front mount, the other 13" of tube you have there is nothing but a restriction where airflow must be moved through.....useless size
# of tubes ALSO makes no damn difference when comparing intercooler "a" to intercooler "b" and "c" and so-on, type of tanks, necks, materials, design, all plays a part in the game here... also on the core design itself, height, width, thickness, # of fins per inch (fpi) internal and external also play a major part... Do NOT find yourself looking for any intercooler with the maximum # of tubes in its design, look at the overall picture.
Our intercooler may not be the most cost effective on the market, but to make it the best and come out on top.....we needed to raise the pricing.
-MPE RACING FABRICATION-
In support of Keith, I will say that in my experience he has been a stand up guy. Sorry so many have had problems with his service, but even though he has been over his head in the past with demand that he had diffulty keeping up with, he has always come thru in the end for me.
Keith, your workmanship is excellent, and I am thrilled with everything you have made for me. Thanks, and keep up the good work.
Keith, your workmanship is excellent, and I am thrilled with everything you have made for me. Thanks, and keep up the good work.
Mease Performance
Performance Fabrication/Supporting Vendor
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hehe
I added $2 worth of "brownie-points" onto the list for you
but subtracted $2 worth of points because you mentioned the Eagles last time ya called
I added $2 worth of "brownie-points" onto the list for you
but subtracted $2 worth of points because you mentioned the Eagles last time ya called
Mease Performance
Performance Fabrication/Supporting Vendor
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LOL!!!
4" cold air intake, we have built a few prototypes, never put it into production....bring da car up here we're only 2 hours away!!!
Originally posted by 87natl
Hey, you can't hold that against me. You think I wasn't feeling the pain too? I BLEED green my man.
What've you got for my '99 GS?
4" cold air intake, we have built a few prototypes, never put it into production....bring da car up here we're only 2 hours away!!!
Mease Performance
Performance Fabrication/Supporting Vendor
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pizza?
TH and Tony D on the pie......come up in a few weeks we'll get her makin some power, bring a pulley
later!
TH and Tony D on the pie......come up in a few weeks we'll get her makin some power, bring a pulley
later!
Mease Performance
Performance Fabrication/Supporting Vendor
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work???
since I'd most likely have to drive through about 10 accident scenes on the way to the shop tomorrow...prolly just chill back here depending on how bad it gets (damn know it all NJ drivers---ya know how that goes (LOL) besides, we just bought a drum of 118 for the turbo snowmobile, time to crank up da boost
since I'd most likely have to drive through about 10 accident scenes on the way to the shop tomorrow...prolly just chill back here depending on how bad it gets (damn know it all NJ drivers---ya know how that goes (LOL)
besides, we just bought a drum of 118 for the turbo snowmobile, time to crank up da boost Keith-i cant help but thinking how well your IC would have done with a American Core in it.- Whats your preference- Jap/Ricer Cores? You should have called it a JR Core, Oh by the way- Happy New Year! Now you ll probably say you changed the core to american.
Mease Performance
Performance Fabrication/Supporting Vendor
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what da heall?
WTF are you talking about, Austrailian is not japenese, btw though, since you brought it up, HKS makes the best intercoolers known to man, in the same dimensions as our 24 row unit, and purchasing 100 units at a time, the HKS cores would have cost us $1,400 each!!!! If ya want one let us know, $2,000 for the unit Garrett cores are bar and plate, less efficient than our "fosters" cores
WTF are you talking about, Austrailian is not japenese, btw though, since you brought it up, HKS makes the best intercoolers known to man, in the same dimensions as our 24 row unit, and purchasing 100 units at a time, the HKS cores would have cost us $1,400 each!!!! If ya want one let us know, $2,000 for the unit
Garrett cores are bar and plate, less efficient than our "fosters" coresUpon your first core delivery you told me in person the cores were of the japanese/ricer pursuasion so i already went out and got a precision front mount at over $100. less and might add very happy with it. $1400. core VS $200-$300. core- Keith thats about a 400%-500% mark-up! Are you saying your $300 core is as good as a HKS? And if you think anyone would buy a $2000. ic from you- id like to know what you re smokin?
Garrett Cores
Keith made this statement, which is true but misleading. The plater type exchangers are less efficient as heat exchangers, but are more efficient at flow. There will less pressure drop through a plate/frame exchanger compared to a tube type exchanger of similar flow area, but there will also be slightly less heat transfer. So the COMBO is the important bit. Does the intercooler provide more lbs/hr, or less lbs/hr, with the turbo you have chosen? If you have to drive the turbo harder to make up for the higher pressure drop, then the plate/shell might give better performance. If your turbo has enough "kick" to stay in an efficient range while pushing air through the tubes, maybe the tube type will give better performance. Bottom line, as usual.. which combo gives the most bang for the buck?
Y'know, if you put any stock in NHRA Correction Factors, and use them to correct the DA from -725 to 2400 feet, the GMHTP test showed a 7/10ths and 4.45 mph gain over the stock IC. All the FM's seem to claim 3-5 tenths and mph, so they're all in the same ballpark.
Cost is similar, too, so I guess it boils down to whether your particular car can handle the coolant temp increase of a FM, and which of the intercoolers are actually AVAILABLE . . . and when.
Cost is similar, too, so I guess it boils down to whether your particular car can handle the coolant temp increase of a FM, and which of the intercoolers are actually AVAILABLE . . . and when.
GNVYUS 1
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Keith, there are only 2 manufactures of IC cores in Aussie land, they both make Extruded Tube cores. These are great cores that add to the validity of the performance claims. I have yet to read you say that these are the cores you are using. Are you using them?
Ormand, you have the two cores flip flopped. Plate cores dissipate heat better per centimeter and flow much less. Plate cores are also weaker, heavier and are more prone to leaking due to having 5 components (extruded tube 3) and human welding to keep them together.
I also read that MPE is now using or experimenting with a fan. The fan would kill the heat soak and level the playing field against an FMIC. Good call on introducing the fan Keith!! It will be worth it.
Ormand, you have the two cores flip flopped. Plate cores dissipate heat better per centimeter and flow much less. Plate cores are also weaker, heavier and are more prone to leaking due to having 5 components (extruded tube 3) and human welding to keep them together.
I also read that MPE is now using or experimenting with a fan. The fan would kill the heat soak and level the playing field against an FMIC. Good call on introducing the fan Keith!! It will be worth it.
