24 row Mease intercooler results

[tracer]

Nick, any thoughts on heat soak of the intercooler compared to the front mount? Any street experience with this set up? Also, how do you think the mease would stack up against a cotton fm?

 

[turbo87limited]

Re: OMG!!!

Originally posted by Mease Performance
I just spit my coffee all over my desk! thanks!

3 yankees or 1 southern folk



shouldnt it be the other way around I thought red*ecks work slooow we will know when randy goes to do his...I can hear the phone ringing now

Keith, you took the words right out of my mouth. I always knew you yankees had a hard time doing things. But in all reality, we rednecks all live in the backwoods, and the nearest help is 50 miles away.
Bubba

 

[1320]

Can you post the best slips from both? all the incrementals and all please?

DA's would be nice too.

 

[southern boost]

Q: How many rednecks does it take to put in an intercooler ?

A: 1

Q: How many yankeees does it take to put in an intercooler?

A: the world may never know .


p.s. Wife layin on the floor laughin her a$$ off.


randy the ( original) REDNECK

 

[Mease Performance]

Re: Re: OMG!!!

Originally posted by turbo87limited
Keith, you took the words right out of my mouth. I always knew you yankees had a hard time doing things. But in all reality, we rednecks all live in the backwoods, and the nearest help is 50 miles away.
Bubba

I thought the nearest farm was right out yalls back door?

Dont mind us incapacitated fools here...hey we made it easy to build not to install

J/K

any questions just ask....

as far as comparison to a cottons front mount, I dont think there is much comparing to do, both intercoolers are designed for completely different applications, cottons front mount is a HUGE front mounted B*TCH and ours is a HUGE stock mounted B*TCH !!!

Our unit will go into the 8's being pressed......heck most of our stretches have 9 second capability, and some have been 9.80s and faster (17-20 row stock core pieces)

Its an easy decision, if your car sees a trailer and a racetrack, a front mount is the way to go (if you are 10.0 or faster).....but for any street useage....or 50/50 the stock location is the way to go....

We have waited for a super efficient core to cross our hands....to build this exact unit, and here it is! There is no need to go larger, wider (cant go any wider at ALL) or longer.......this unit is IT....we have raised the core to sit in the car as high as it possibly can to produce the HIGHEST ride height possible (for the intercooler) and have maximized all of these points...plus a bunch.

As compared to the V4, V4r, thunder fab, MJ, MPE 15, 17, 19, and 20 row units....we have surpassed and added features that will leave them in the dust.......They are selling as fast as we can build them and will be seen on probabally 80%+ of the TSM cars....Now if we could only keep them in stock

Keep em comin!

 

[southern boost]

Hey nick what about the lag difference and did you have any turbo surge?


randy

 

[turbo buicks]

Originally posted by tracer
Nick, any thoughts on heat soak of the intercooler compared to the front mount? Any street experience with this set up? Also, how do you think the mease would stack up against a cotton fm?

 

[49-blues]

Pricewise its closer to a Precision front mount- i d like to see a real world between the KMSM and the Precision front mount. i think keith wanted $800- $900. for his and thats about what a Precision front mount is going for.

 

[Nick Micale]

Originally posted by southern boost
Hey nick what about the lag difference and did you have any turbo surge? randy

Took the car out again last night, it spools MUCH faster than with the V-2. Turbo surge? None at WOT!

As far as heat soak, can only guess that since the car runs 30 degrees cooler at the track after a pass, heat soak on the street would not be a problem. Also, in my hurry to get it on for testing last weekend, I did not install the stock crank intercooler fan.

Have a GN here with a Precision FM and the core measures considerably SMALLER than the V-2, so my opinion is that it would have a similar comparison.

If dollars would be the main consideration, go with the KME stretch I/C which is about $600, and probably will compare performance-wise to PTE and the V-4. Have a stretch on the way so will check that out also.

 

[GNVYUS 1]

No flames here, just pointing out a few things.

Before we all go taking off our FMIC's and putting them on the parts trader, lets clear up a few things here.

1) The reason the stock locations (any aftermarket) see an increase in boost is due to the shorter distance the boost travels. To imply that its the core would be misleading.
Ex. Intalled a Dutt neck on my stock 87 IC and boost raised 2 psi. Yet, I did nothing to upgrade the cores efficiency. But I did create a less restrictive flow path for the boost. Spool up is what ALL stock locations will have over the FMIC's. MPE's is huge but by no means larger than a 25x15x4 FMIC core.

2)The V2 ran at 22 psi and the MPE at 24 psi. You saw .2 in the et due to the higher boost level, not the core efficiency. Run them both at the same psi, shift rpm, and then compare both 60 ft times. The faster you go, the FMIC will edge ahead.

3)Heat soak has to do with the ICs core, not rad temps. The FMIC core is not only larger, but will see more ambient air. This means the smaller, air deprived core stuck in the hot engine bay, will have more heat soak run after run and on the street.

The power benefit to the stock location coolant temps is that the heads will be cooler at the end of the run. The MPE will save you money in coolant upgrades and will allow you to buy an alky kit to better the inlet temps over the FMIC alone. (Rad & Fans $650, Alky $400)

IMO, the MPE unit is a better financial and street performing unit (spool up). If you want mid 10's and beyond, go FMIC. If I was not going to get the new TA heads and GT67, I would have an MPE.

 

[Taffy]

Picking up 2 psig boost proves the Mease unit has a lower pressure drop. That means the turbo has to do less work to get the same boost pressure. I put on a 70mm throttle body that got me 2 more psig, but everyone claims that they do not make more power than the stock unit. Go figure.

If you lower the boost when you put on the Mease unit to the boost level that the V-2 was giving you, that will tell you what IC has a higher thermal efficiency. I am willing to bet that if you made 2 laps ie: hot lap, the front mount will yeild better results.

I have a Mease built unit, not sure of the fin count, but after making numerous runs on our little short track near the shop, the IC was VERY hot and you could feel the power drop off a little bit. Maybe it was my butt dyno getting bad, but the IC was definitely getting hotter, as well as the radiator temps.

 

[jmidolo]

What did the car actually run for a number Nick? I've never understood why people go w/a FM unless it's a 11.teen or lower car to begin with, but that's me.

The lower temps make sense as you would be getting that much more airflow across the radiatior also without the FM blocking it.

Dr. Boost makes some good points

 

[Nick Micale]

Originally posted by DR.BOOSTER
[BBefore we all go taking off our FMIC's and putting them on the parts trader, lets clear up a few things here.

1) The reason the stock locations (any aftermarket) see an increase in boost is due to the shorter distance the boost travels. To imply that its the core would be misleading.
Ex. Intalled a Dutt neck on my stock 87 IC and boost raised 2 psi. Yet, I did nothing to upgrade the cores efficiency. But I did create a less restrictive flow path for the boost. Spool up is what ALL stock locations will have over the FMIC's. MPE's is huge but by no means larger than a 25x15x4 FMIC core.

2)The V2 ran at 22 psi and the MPE at 24 psi. You saw .2 in the et due to the higher boost level, not the core efficiency. Run them both at the same psi, shift rpm, and then compare both 60 ft times. The faster you go, the FMIC will edge ahead.

3)Heat soak has to do with the ICs core, not rad temps. The FMIC core is not only larger, but will see more ambient air. This means the smaller, air deprived core stuck in the hot engine bay, will have more heat soak run after run and on the street.
[/B]

First, no one advocated "changing" to KME and dumping a FM, just results of "real world" examples.

Your "facts" are not completely accurate and some of your comments completely puzzling? I am not flaming you but think you need to differentiate between facts and opinions.

My V-2 measures 23-1/4"x13"x3" and the KME 19"x13"x4". You can do the numbers for TOTAL area. Also, the actual core design of the KME is different than the V-2.

If boost is restriction, then more boost is less restriction. Of course the increase in power was due to more boost. So I can run less boost with the KME, and move more air than the V-2 at that boost. [Taffy said this too.]

As far as engine heat soak, that is very important as I prefer to see my coolant temp at 165 deg. instead of 195 deg. Worth 10 psi on this motor. You need to check out the KME shroud before you say it is "heat deprived". The air intake temp will be recorded and compared to the V-2 in future outings.

Personally, do not think mid-10's is the place where the "need" for a FM comes into play. Over the years I have seen many low 10, high 9 sec cars with stock location units.

Like I said, I just posted info from a single track comparison. How it will work in all applications remains to be seen.

 

[Turbo T/A 1543]

Dammit Keith, fire that big unit (intercooler) at me so I can get in here and put in my .02! I might even see if this hick can install it with one hand tied behind his back.

 

[strikeeagle]

I put V-2's on both of my cars, and on a 3rd car I sold.

To my thinking, there is no question that a FM adversely affects coolant temperatures, but since I live within spitting distance of Canada, who cares?

There is also no question that a FM provides a lower charge air temperature.

I think that everything considered, there probably isn't much difference in performance between a SL and FM.

However, my bottom line is that the OEM I/C fits like crap, the feedback I've received on the V-4 is that it fits like crap, and from what I've read on the MPE, well... I just HATE the fit of SL I/Cs, and will never have one again. The V-2 fits like a glove.

 

[turbo nasty]

Any time you can get the IC in the direct stream of amb. air flow it would be ideal. But if the IC has to reject heat in a engine compartment that is completely surrounded by radiant heat and all the heat coming through the radiator blowing on it also then of course the IC is going to fall off terribly in its ability to cooler the charge air.

Food for thought ..
Why do you think that the GNX has functional louvers the vent heat out of the engine compartment ???
To keep it as cool as possible, IC included. This was done to help performance.
Considering the cores of the IC are the best design, best stuff, etc. i.e. done the homework on design.
Repeated blasts at even pump gas boost levels the FM will be able to keep the charge air temps down better.

But, I do see where the FM can cause higher operating temps and therefore possibly hinder performance.
A toss up of basically this...
Cooler charge air at speed equalling more HPand TQ vs. The concern of HP/TQ loss from higher operating temps by radiator air blocked by the FMIC.

 

[1bad85gn]

If everyone agrees that a radiator cools better when not blocked by a FM, dumb logic would lead me to believe that an intercooler would cool better when not blocked by a radiator?!?

 

[southern boost]

Well 1st off the kme unit comes very well designed with shroud and adj. scoop that would help keep your air temp down ,also the tta and the regular ta of 89 and 90 had air dams under them for rad. cooling. I believe that this points back to a well design way to direct air to a unit, be it rad. or intercooler can keep temps down , but with a fm setting right on front of the rad this will greatly increase cooling temps causing performance drops .

I believe with this said that a street- strip car will benefit from stock location intercooler. until you start into the low 9s .

just my .02

p.s. we rednecks have to have both hands- one for the monkey wrench and one for the visegrips.

randy

 

[The Radius Kid]

Originally posted by The Radius Kid
Interesting.A couple of good questions too.
1.Was the V-2 cleaned before the testing.
2.Was it the 2 piece up pipe[2.5"]?

Couple of questions pending there Nick.

 

[Nick Micale]

Originally posted by The Radius Kid
Couple of questions pending there Nick.

I ignored the first one since it has no bearing on the internal pressure drop?



The V-2 pipes are 3" one piece.