3.8 Stage ll: Should I bother?

[JoyOf6]

Just mulling things over out loud here...

I cratered my daily driver's block last week, and am contemplating whether to just drop in another stock block, which is what I would do if I didn't have a virgin 3.8 off-center Stage II yawning in the corner. I can't ever see using a 3.8 (stroked or not) in my faster car, so why not? Of course, the car doesn't REQUIRE it, but I have the luxury of considering this as an option. With the new Al block coming, we all know these iron relics have crashed in desirability anyway . Nevertheless, I'm not talking about wasting the block on a mild street car - it's gone 124 mph in the heat and 6000' air, and has received a little upgrade since then. I basically use it as the happy dumping ground for parts my faster car outgrows... but now it's getting fairly serious itself.

For such a project, I already have Carillos, JE, and the roller lifters/billet cam from my busted engine assuming they'll be healthy. I know I'd be happy with the current ported stock iron heads/intake until the time comes that my other car outgrows the GN1/CAS intake combo. A Dutt pan/oiling and a crank (3.40) would be the main immediate hardware costs, although stroking it (new pistons then) is a possibility. I've been down the Stage road twice already so I know there are hidden costs that add up, but I have time. I suppose I should work up a detailed cost analysis and wonder what the heck I'm doing with this car before proceeding piecemeal.

Art

 

[JoyOf6]

Originally posted by JoyOf6
Just mulling things over out loud here...

I cratered my daily driver's block last week, and am contemplating whether to just drop in another stock block, which is what I would do if I didn't have a virgin 3.8 off-center Stage II yawning in the corner.

Well, bully for you! Is that why you posted this, to reveal to all of us that you're using that POS block as a radio stand in your garage? How special.

I can't ever see using a 3.8 (stroked or not) in my faster car, so why not? Of course, the car doesn't REQUIRE it, but I have the luxury of considering this as an option. With the new Al block coming, we all know these iron relics have crashed in desirability anyway .

What a putz.

Nevertheless, I'm not talking about wasting the block on a mild street car - it's gone 124 mph in the heat and 6000' air, and has received a little upgrade since then. I basically use it as the happy dumping ground for parts my faster car outgrows... but now it's getting fairly serious itself.

The block ain't the only thing yawning now.

For such a project, I already have Carillos, JE, and the roller lifters/billet cam from my busted engine assuming they'll be healthy. I know I'd be happy with the current ported stock iron heads/intake until the time comes that my other car outgrows the GN1/CAS intake combo. A Dutt pan/oiling and a crank (3.40) would be the main immediate hardware costs, although stroking it (new pistons then) is a possibility. I've been down the Stage road twice already so I know there are hidden costs that add up, but I have time.

Gettin' fairly long in the tooth from what I'm told.

I suppose I should work up a detailed cost analysis and wonder what the heck I'm doing with this car before proceeding piecemeal.

Yeah, and while you're poindextering the numbers, maybe consider deleting this thread - you know it's the quality not the quantity of words that counts on this Forum.

Gimme a ring if you want some more advice.

RT Ramone

 

[qwknuf6 jr]

Art
Did I miss something ?
Is Ramone your alter ego?

p.s. I would get rid of that stage motor while you can , with the aluminium blocks on the way it will be hard to unload stage motors, I can be in Texas tonight to get that worthless 3.8 stage motor , heck I'll even give you a few Bucks for it ....shoot me your address Art , I'm on my way

 

[RealFastV6]

I'd build it, hell yeah. Screw stroking it too, put a 3.4 crank in it and rev it out to 8500rpms. It'll be bulletproof making that kind of power.

 

[JoyOf6]

qwknuf6 jr: Yes, and RT Ramone hides the Clozapine too. He tells me it's fun being him. Even if I don't build the block now, I can't actually part company with it - the other blocks in the garage need someone to laugh at. Does Fred or someone else in the OK Club still have cranks?

Real: I think I'm leaning that way - may as well try to find a steel crank or pop down to O'Reilly's and pick up a new one. Then when I get fed up, wait another 9 months for a billet.

AR-T

 

[Mac in SD]

Art - one word: lithium.

 

[HYPER-6]

Originally posted by Mac in SD
Art - one word: lithium.

I was thinking padded cell...

Anyhow, Art give OH George Montgomery a call
for a 3.4 crank. He had several available a few
months back. ~$900. (937)233-0353 Tell him
Ramone sent ya.

 

[JoyOf6]

Private e-mail was a bit brisker than implied by this moribund thread. The majority thought building the 3.8 Stage II was worthwhile for this car's combo even if it's third-banana in my garage. I tend to agree with these "enablers," especially given the direction the combo will likely follow.

Art

 

[750H.P.V6]

Art,

I've been following your ramblings and I thought I'd put in my 2 cents on 3.8 liter Stage II blocks based on first hand experience.

Early Stage II 3.8 liter blocks as well as Stage I blocks appear to be a weak casting and are very prone to crack on the passenger side of the block between the freeze plug holes. I personally know 4 people that have experienced this myself included. In the area of the block between the freeze plugs the material is thin (less than 1/4 inch) which seems to be the largest part of the problem.

Once the block cracks (it's just a matter of time) there isn't much that can be done. I have come to a point with mine after an attemped weld repair, numerous cans of K&W block seal and not being able to keep the block from leaking that I have given up on it and am building a 4.1 motor instead.

Keep in mind there are at least 2 versions of this block I know of that carry the same casting # 25500012. There is a version of the 3.8 block cast in '85 that has 4 steel main caps and siameese cylinders. These blocks were originally intended for Indy use. If this is the version you have it should be fine as it's a much stronger piece. If not I wouldn't use it.

Just my opinion based on personal frusrtation.

Take Care
Neal

 

[JoyOf6]

Neal,

I knew about the Stage I crap shoot, and you may recall that two adjacent bores on my Stage I each developed a long vertical crack. Sonic-testing revealed thin walls. I guess it's not surprising to hear of 3.8 Stage II problems. Well, I may have to take my chances with it: I'm not going to race that car hard/often, so I may as well give it a try. But thanks for the H/U. If it fails, so be it. Part of the appeal is keeping it 231 and not wasting big-inch parts on this car. Are you stroking your street 4.1?

Art

 

[750H.P.V6]

Art,

I had forgotten about your Stage I saga until you mentioned it. Personally I'm of the opinion that Stage I blocks were the reject Stage II blocks anyway. The reason I say this is that the Stage II blocks were sonic checked by the factory. I Figure the ones that didn't measure up became Stage I blocks since GM believed they weren't going to be used in extreme H.P. applications.

On my motor I'm planning on using all the guts from the current engine with the exception of the pistons of course. I already have a 3.625" crank in the motor so with a 3.965" bore I'll end up at somewhere around 268 cu in. I figure the extra displacement can't hurt and the larger bore dia. will help to unshroud the valves for better airflow.

Wish me luck

Neal

 

[Mac in SD]

Neal, I can't believe the BS you've been through with that block. You had the entire package done right, making great power...headed for the 9's. Super sano install, the whole deal. I'm glad you've got a "spare" lying around, and that you're going for the 4.1 (+).

Now, do the right thing....

...AND PUT STAGE 2 HEADS ON IT!!!


Heh-heh-heh..... Sorry. Couldn't resist.

By the way, the 96 lb. chip is outstanding! (Little plug for Brutal 6.)