4" Cold air kit from TURBO REGAL CUSTOM PARTS

[2QUIK6]

Originally posted by turbot2112
i had marks cold air kit and unfotunatelly could never get my cell 15 blm count down after 6 or 7 chip changes from jim testa.

hmm, my cell 15 was always in the 140's but I didn't equate it to the CAI, didn't think of it. Did cell 15 go back down after you removed it??

Mine is in cell 15 at around cruise 35+ mph usually.
I ended up lowering the injector constant in the chip, which richens it up across the board at all rpms/load, then tweaked the MAF table to lean back out the idle.

 

[TType84]

Originally posted by V8KILLR
I agree with this point.
The heat gained in drawing air in from the engine compartment is negligible next to the heat that results from the compression of the intake air in the turbo. The compression of the intake air is by far the leading factor in the increase of air temperature!!! The temp gain in the compressor, is far and above greater then the gain in non-CAI vs. CAI, the heat added to the turbo (heat sinking), and the heat conduction across the turbo that results exhaust gases. The reason why your car runs faster on a cold day is NOT due to the lower intake temp. It IS due to the greater delta “T” across the intercooler (temp difference)! The ice is the same point. Notist that both of these conditions are AFTER the compression in the turbo?!?!

Jason

then explain why my car, a hotair, with no intercooler, runs better on a cold day than a hot day?


when you explain that, you're worthy of a long drawn out response from me.

 

[azgn]

for the very reason you stated....you got no IC, thus you will benefit somewhat from sucking cooler ambient air since you have no other way to cool it....with an IC, the cooler air has a much more dramatic affect and the input air temp (to the turbo) is less important

point being made is, you don't gain enough from the "cool" air plumbing to overcome the flow losses.......I can say for a fact, my car picked up when I went back to an underhood filter with a straight shot to the turbo....this was a 3" setup with a maf (it amounted to about .1-.15 at the track where the car was cooled down between runs)
Steve Y. ran some tests and determined the straight shot method was better than the plumbing involved AT THE TRACK...........street driven cars, who knows?

a mafless 4" "may" offer some gains....I intend to test that theory...right now I have 4" straight shot, under hood, no maf BUT I have a 4" pipe routed under the headlite and behind the spoiler that theoretically will blow some outside air on the filter......I will plumb this up directly (and eliminate the filter) at the track and see what happens........ (of course who knows what I may gain just taking off the filter?)

I say, if a cold air system makes you feel good, use one

 

[TType84]

on a race car, at the track...

lets see... that involves a 1/4 pass, then usually a wait in the pits with the hood up for 30 minutes... there is no time for heat to build up under the hood compared to street driving..


now i want to know if you think that inlet temps have absolutely no affect on outlet temps.. cause i'm willing to bet the outlet temps on my turbo at 20psi when i'm running propane are a whole lot cooler than when i'm not.....

 

[azgn]

and your point is?

nobody will argue with you that cooler input temps are better.....

but, if you disrupt the flow enough, to gain a cooler intake,you may gain nada

as pointed out, my observations are at the track, not driving around town

as I said, if you like the idea, use one (just don't count on much improvement)

 

[murphster]

Originally posted by T-limited
I would like to buy you a beer murphster

Let me know next time you come to the Jersey shore!

Anyway, I think azgn has a valid point. There may be a limit where intake temp does not affect a car as much as flow. Probably won't make as much a difference for the very fast cars with bigger intercoolers and bigger turbos who properly cool down there cars.

For someone like me with a stock intercooler, I think the gain would be better since the intercooler is limited. Plus, I usually don't get a chance to cool down my car all the way in between runs, not to mention if I want to sneak in a quick run once I get to the track if my lane happens to be up (which usually happens). On the street, the car is always hot, but its not like I race on the street so who knows if I would notice the difference.

Without a turbo shield, the underhood temps can be much higher and I know a lot of people don't use them. Plus for someone still using the lower flow stock turbo, I doubt any flow difference coming from the plumbing would come into effect.

Either way, I can't see how anyone can make generic statements such as it does/doesn't work. Depends on each persons setup and how its driven. Jason (V8KILLR), I posted the turbo compressor temp info just to show there's no way you could know what the effect of the cold air intake is without looking up actual numbers and comparing real world experiences. I didn't even think it would make as much difference but had no idea until I got some reference numbers.

 

[TType84]

Originally posted by azgn
and your point is?

nobody will argue with you that cooler input temps are better.....

but, if you disrupt the flow enough, to gain a cooler intake,you may gain nada

as pointed out, my observations are at the track, not driving around town

as I said, if you like the idea, use one (just don't count on much improvement)

someone already was arguing that.. no matter what, on a street car, youre gonna have cooler inlet temps with a cold air kit, thats the ****ing point. but jason over there is telling people they're useless and basically you're retarded for buying one.

i like mine but i made it myself because i'm not spending $200 on something like a cold air kit.

(1) 3" rubber hose coupler - $4
(1) 90* pvc pipe elbow - $3
(1) two foot section of 3" pvc pipe - free

so i spent all of $7 and 30 minutes (not counting painting it) to make a cold air intake, big freakin deal. there's no way it doesnt help especially on a hotair with the up pipe sitting there baking EVERYTHING. it might give me only a few hp, but it was required to use an LS1 maf anyway.... so who cares. if i wanted to i could still put a filter on the end of the maf and leave the two pieces of pvc off. no one can tell its plastic anyway.

 

[NJVetteGuy]

Wow, these debates make me feel like I'm back on the Vette forums If you want to see a lot of cold air arguments, do a search for "Vararam" on corvetteforum.com and you will actually see every possible argument about it on an NA car. Personally, I think if the original poster is happy with his purchase, there's no reason to debate it. I hate to see Buick guys dropping to the level of typical vette people

 

[Marc87GN]

Originally posted by NJVetteGuy
Wow, these debates make me feel like I'm back on the Vette forums If you want to see a lot of cold air arguments, do a search for "Vararam" on corvetteforum.com and you will actually see every possible argument about it on an NA car. Personally, I think if the original poster is happy with his purchase, there's no reason to debate it. I hate to see Buick guys dropping to the level of typical vette people

Try the mustang boards. I belonged to 8 of them before I sold my 99 GT and the debates would be come extremely heated. this is very mild to me. Differences of opinion offer a reader alot of information to do what they wish with it later.

 

[buzzman]

guys, interesting and do not want to steal the thread but......one of my problems with the cold air kits or the big kn on the maf end is that they require a rigid mount to the alt bracket. I remember something that Red A said about this........he felt a rigid mount for the maf was not a good thing, and that the maf should be cushioned from engine vibes etc. He also discouraged the solid maf pipe for the same reasons. Any thoughts? What Red said is stopping me from going the cold air route. I currently run the plate that eliminates the bottom half of the the air box and exposes the small kn filter.

 

[TR Custom Parts]

My kits do not mount solidly to the alt bracket. There is plenty of flex in them.

PS, latest FDA studies show that using cold air systems and solid MAF pipes can cause severe liver damage in laboratory mice.

 

[DonnieShort]

Originally posted by buzzman
guys, interesting and do not want to steal the thread but......one of my problems with the cold air kits or the big kn on the maf end is that they require a rigid mount to the alt bracket. I remember something that Red A said about this........he felt a rigid mount for the maf was not a good thing, and that the maf should be cushioned from engine vibes etc. He also discouraged the solid maf pipe for the same reasons. Any thoughts? What Red said is stopping me from going the cold air route. I currently run the plate that eliminates the bottom half of the the air box and exposes the small kn filter.

Red said several years ago that a steel solid maf pipe subjected the stock maf to vibration that could cause it to fail prematurely. True or not I don't know. All I know is that I have a solid maf pipe and cold air intake along with a 3½" maf and I've had no problems at all for 4 years. To each his own.

 

[TType84]

Originally posted by DonnieShort
Red said several years ago that a steel solid maf pipe subjected the stock maf to vibration that could cause it to fail prematurely. True or not I don't know. All I know is that I have a solid maf pipe and cold air intake along with a 3½" maf and I've had no problems at all for 4 years. To each his own.

did you buy your car stock?

heres how it works on my hotair:

1. u shaped brace from frame to stock air box.

2. stock air box

3. 90* bend from stock air box

4. maf sensor, which coincidentally is bolted to a METAL BRACE that is attached to the stock airbox.


its bolted to the frame... gonna get a lot of road vibration and ever bump and jolt would be transmitted directly into the maf.

 

[buzzman]

good point!

 

[DonnieShort]

Originally posted by TType84
did you buy your car stock?

heres how it works on my hotair:

1. u shaped brace from frame to stock air box.

2. stock air box

3. 90* bend from stock air box

4. maf sensor, which coincidentally is bolted to a METAL BRACE that is attached to the stock airbox.


its bolted to the frame... gonna get a lot of road vibration and ever bump and jolt would be transmitted directly into the maf.

My car was as close to stock as you could get, and let's face it how many stock TR's are there. But anyway, it was stock with the exception of a fmic, everything else was stock right down to the maf sensor and bracket but it decided to go bad before the solid maf pipe was introduced to the set up. So maybe the metal brace is the culprit instead of the solid maf pipe.

 

[buzzman]

I agree, my opinion is that is was always the metal brace as opposed to the solid maf pipe.

 

[Roc87]

QUOTE:
"PS, latest FDA studies show that using cold air systems and solid MAF pipes can cause severe liver damage in laboratory mice."

Well, I always figured if I had liver problems it was from alcohol, but now that Mark has said this, we can blame him.......................



All joking aside, it's a great kit, in addition of a Trans+, extender chip, and an LS1 MAF (Got rid of the stock MAF, 3" Chrome MAF pipe, and 14" K&N) I went from a 12.8 to a 12.2. With Scanmaster I'd always see IAT AT LEAST 50° higher than ambiant temperature, and even with a 4" Hose leading from the air dam to the filter, at 65 MPH, the IAT was still AT LEAST 30° higher. Great fitting kit, Sounds AWESOME, and..........

I DON'T CARE IF IT DIDN'T MAKE THE CAR FASTER!!!!!!

 

[slowGN]

Why don't one of you guys do a dyno test with it on and with the filter in the engine bay and see what happens.
I wish I could, but I don't have the funds right now.

Later
CJ

 

[NEARING]

Originally posted by slowGN
Why don't one of you guys do a dyno test with it on and with the filter in the engine bay and see what happens.
I wish I could, but I don't have the funds right now.

Later
CJ

I may try that but until my fuel pumps come in I'm stuck like chuck.

 

[Ormand]

V8KILLR, the temperature increase from compression is going to be pretty close to the same whether the turbo has cool air coming in, or hot air. But the critical part is INCREASE. If the air in is 30 or 40 degrees cooler, the air OUT will be 30 or 40 degrees cooler. That means the air density as it leaves the turbo will be higher, and that the cool air to the engine will be less likely to cause detonation. Both of those are good things! And if you pull out your fluids handbook, and calculate the loss through the extra piping and bends, you will see that it amounts to maybe two or three inches of H20. NOT a big old pressure loss, compared to the drop through the air filter and the MAF.