6LE 1987 Grand National 4.8 turbo swap APPEARANCE mods...

[6LE Designs]

Well, after finding out my GN needed a new motor and finding out a built motor, bigger turbo and alky kit would cost me $9k installed AND only make 450ish horsepower I decided to yank the motor and do a 4.8 swap with my buddy Mike W (Swapper on LS1tech). Doing the Edelbrock Performer intake, ported 317s, 224/228 112 cam (cruiser so I wanted lope), T76 turbo probably running 12-15lbs of boost. Should easily d0 500hp but goal is closer to 600hp.

I'm not starting the swap thread yet till it's running (couple weeks away due to parts, waiting on custom cam and head work to be finished) but today when we ran out of stuff to do we started brainstorming with cardboard, lol.

Plans are to debadge it, powder the stock wheels gloss black (already done now), add a splitter, side exhaust (shaped like GNX vents) with matching side skirts and rear skirts (that is actually a complete bottom pan with diffusers). Here's what we came up with, taking to the shop tomorrow to start water jetting the parts...

Our goal with this build is to keep the idea of the Grand National (taking the Buick Regal and throwing at it the fastest GM powertrain we could build and blacking it all out, just going further with the rims) and the GNX (making it more of a muscle/race car in appearance and performance) and just taking it to what we think is the next evolutionary step in that line.

It's also getting a modern spoiler, GNX fender flares and still debating on changing up the hood (will look like a GN hood but bigger bubble, may even make it a shaker IF we can make it functional) and then smooth door handles.

THIS WAS ALL A CARDBOARD MOCK UP. The splitter needs a lot of work design wise but I'll smooth the lines out on the waterjet...

I'll keep this thread update as she gets the real parts... Thoughts? Flame suit on... lol.

 

[turbolou]

Having done something similar to this I can only tell you that you will be wishing you spent the 9K if money is your issue. To do a V/8 project correctly you will have 40 to 60 invested. Plus a big learning curve on how to keep it off the guard rails when it does nothing but spin the tires. Ask anyone that had seen my car run when I owned it. But it was a fun project never the less & learned a lot so good luck with it.

 

[6LE Designs]

Lou like Mike and I said in the shop, been doing LSswaps for about 14 years now. Usually done for $2k-$4k, spent more on this one to get fancy in areas. No clue how you're spending $40-$60k to do it right, please expand...

 

[6LE Designs]

FYI, car's already been running with this motor in it...



Once we had the parts we had it all in and wired in a weekend. Only thing that took time was getting stuff made (drive shaft shortened, lines made, etc...).

Only hold up has been the Edelbrock intake. I just through an LS6 intake on there while waiting to get things together. We FINALLY got it last week and it is getting Edelbrock ground off of it this week, installed NEXT weekend (as this weekend is my birthday party)... We pulled the motor back apart this weekend to put better heads, cam, etc... on after we new the motor was good and running.

 

[Stage24u]

Lose the body kit/spoiler/splitter things.

It's a Buick, not a Honda, and I reckon you are older than 16.

GN's are one of the few stock appearing cars that create a crowd at any meet/show.

There is no need to any of that conceptual junk to detract from that.

No clue how you're spending $40-$60k to do it right, please expand.

Suspension, tuning, computer, transmission, torque converter, drive shaft, etc.....rinse and repeat each time something breaks or is upgraded.

What trans and converter are you using? Suspension?

Well, after finding out my GN needed a new motor and finding out a built motor, bigger turbo and alky kit would cost me $9k installed AND only make 450ish horsepower

What combo were you looking at and who told you $9k?

There have been many a stout motor, including a few stroker's in the for sale section under $5k (great deal btw)

That 4.8 will be fun tho, and I bet you won't stop at 15lbs boost either. Hehe

 

[6LE Designs]

Lose the body kit/spoiler/splitter things.

It's a Buick, not a Honda, and I reckon you are older than 16.

GN's are one of the few stock appearing cars that create a crowd at any meet/show.

There is no need to any of that conceptual junk to detract from that.

For me it just looks absolutely silly with just that front piece and nothing else, looks like the rest fell off lol. I'm going to have side exhaust also and I don't want it to look like an afterthought, hence the side piece, and the rear will be a functional full under tray so air doesn't trap in the bumper (not that a lot does like newer cars) and have metal diffusers.

If you think about it, let's assume the GNX never came out and someone today decided to stick those fender flares on... Flame on, lol!

Also all the parts you see will be made out of metal (except the splitter, don't want to lose a leg working on the car lol) and powder coated gloss black so they'll look like part of the body not add ons...

Suspension, tuning, computer, transmission, torque converter, drive shaft, etc.....rinse and repeat each time something breaks or is upgraded.

What trans and converter are you using? Suspension?

Built 4L60E to 700hp, 3200 stall converter. So far just tubular stuff and bilsteins. Might eventually fab something in the shop similar to the GNX off of Xrays GNX build sheets.

What combo were you looking at and who told you $9k?

There have been many a stout motor, including a few stroker's in the for sale section under $5k (great deal btw)

That 4.8 will be fun tho, and I bet you won't stop at 15lbs boost either. Hehe

I was at Lou's. Took it in for alky but after he checked the motor and the crank pulley moved too much he advised we don't alky and beat on that motor, lol. Also looked like the tranny was going to have issues. He had a built motor sitting there for a great price (won't quote the price because it was lower than normal) and was talking a bigger turbo alky and tune for it ($9K was for all that installed) the price was good but it just wasn't going to make the power I wanted AND since my business was LS based this was a better calling card.

 

[Stage24u]

I'm going to have side exhaust also and I don't want it to look like an afterthought

There is a reason why body kits for Grand Nationals were never popular like they are with the import crowd.

and the rear will be a functional full under tray so air doesn't trap in the bumper (not that a lot does like newer cars) and have metal diffusers.

Goals for the car? 10s? 9s?

Unless you putting down north of 1k to the wheels, there is no benefit to a diffuser.

I was at Lou's. Took it in for alky but after he checked the motor and the crank pulley moved too much he advised we don't alky and beat on that motor, lol. Also looked like the tranny was going to have issues. He had a built motor sitting there for a great price (won't quote the price because it was lower than normal) and was talking a bigger turbo alky and tune for it ($9K was for all that installed) the price was good but it just wasn't going to make the power

For $9k what type of power was it going to make?

I wanted AND since my business was LS based this was a better calling card.

One of the main reasons GN's get the respect they do is because OF THE TURBO V6, not a V8 transplant.

Too many, it was unfathomable that a 231ci Turbo V6 could hang and/or even beat a BB V8, which it did regularly....particularly the Vette in 86/87, which lead to the demise of the GN.

To each his own...

 

[turbolou]

Lou like Mike and I said in the shop, been doing LSswaps for about 14 years now. Usually done for $2k-$4k, spent more on this one to get fancy in areas. No clue how you're spending $40-$60k to do it right, please expand...

I was talking complete project & assume you will paint the car, build the suspension, rear end, turbos, intercooler,engine management, injectors, ignition, tires, wheels, etc. what about building the engine & trans to accommodate the H.P.the turbos will develop. You can't just hang a turbo on a stock used engine that wasn't set up for it & expect it to run for very long would you. These are some of the questions I have as to how a car can be properly built for a couple of grand ?

 

[ZNix]

I was talking complete project & assume you will paint the car, build the suspension, rear end, turbos, intercooler,engine management, injectors, ignition, tires, wheels, etc. what about building the engine & trans to accommodate the H.P.the turbos will develop. You can't just hang a turbo on a stock used engine that wasn't set up for it & expect it to run for very long would you. These are some of the questions I have as to how a car can be properly built for a couple of grand ?

Lou, these LS engines are pretty damn stout. I've seen stock truck 4.8/5.3s live into the 700rwhp range for quite a while with a big chinese turbo slapped on there. He could easily make 600rw and not have to worry about breaking that thing for a very long time. It doesn't take much. If you don't believe me check out ls1tech.com and look up Denmah. Or Sloppy Mechanics facebook page 'Matt Happel' has a few projects running j/y v8s with turbos.

The only thing I'd change is the 4L60e. Slap in a 4L80e with a trans go hd2 shift kit and never have to worry about the trans.

Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

 

[turb0buick57]

Completely understand installing a junkyard ls motor and getting it Running with a 4l60e or alternative for 2k-5k. I see that all the time.

What I don't understand is how 5k could include a turbo/turbo kit installed.
Is this custom fabbed or is their some cheap alternative out there I'm unaware of?

Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Seems that the conversation is leaning more toward the LS engine and turbos, etc. So, it's being moved to LS tech forum.

 

[8 SEC 109]

Having done something similar to this I can only tell you that you will be wishing you spent the 9K if money is your issue. To do a V/8 project correctly you will have 40 to 60 invested. Plus a big learning curve on how to keep it off the guard rails when it does nothing but spin the tires. Ask anyone that had seen my car run when I owned it. But it was a fun project never the less & learned a lot so good luck with it.

LOL! 40-60k try 10-15k for 8 sec power. Check it out http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/threads/dave-bamfords-4-8-lsx-conversion.364382/

 

[TType85]

LOL! 40-60k try 10-15k for 8 sec power. Check it out http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/threads/dave-bamfords-4-8-lsx-conversion.364382/

You can make insane power out of those lsx motors cheap but what I think Lou was talking about is the whole car. Safety equipment, chassis, etc.


Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Completely understand installing a junkyard ls motor and getting it Running with a 4l60e or alternative for 2k-5k. I see that all the time.

What I don't understand is how 5k could include a turbo/turbo kit installed.
Is this custom fabbed or is their some cheap alternative out there I'm unaware of?

Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

I tend to agree w/ the 5K cost. However, unless you can do all your fab work, have access to free/cheap materials, it's going to be difficult.

Here's a break down on my hot side project:
BW 400SX turbo $1050.00 [Work Turbo, B'ham, Al]
PTE 46mm gate. $200.00 [Ebay deal]
V-band flanges, expansion joints, etc. $350.00
2.5" and 4" 304 stainless scraps from my bud's shop. $0.00 [Add in at least $300 to buy it]
Truck exh manifolds. $50.00.
Argon gas, filler rods, tungsten, etc. $200.00 [Purge costs $$]
So far, the hotside is done.
TOTAL $2150 No labor included. Can't DIY, and have to hire it out?? Double it.

The cold side is yet to be done. Will do that once the car is re-assembled.
A "guesstimate":
I/C Jace Cramer. $700.00
3" piping. $150.00
5" piping for intake to turbo, air box, connectors, filter, etc. $200.00
5" Silicone hose, clamps. $100.00

Total, again, no labor. $1150.00

We're now at "only" $3300.00

Of course, there are projects like Denmah's on LS1 tech, that look like Fido did the welding, use of mild steel exh pipe bends, Ebay turbo, I/C, w/g, etc, that will reduce the costs.............But.

Now add in an engine...............

 

[6LE Designs]

Price of the whole car is irrelevant. $9k was for a built motor, bigger turbo, alky, tune, installed and around 450hp... All the other stuff (paint, suspension, etc...) would be on top of that.

Under $9k is now for 4.8 with all ARP bolts/studs, custom cam, 60mm injectors, fuel pump, Edelbrock intake, ported heads, Turbonetics T76 turbo, built for 700hp 4L60-E with 3200 converter and warranty, PCM, wiring harness, tuning (dyno and street), shortened driveshaft, mounts, professionally built hot side and cold side, battery relocation, GNX style gauges, new shifter, HID headlights, AND some radio stuff AND more suspension stuff AND etc... for 550-600hp and great gas mileage.

Not like we just stuck a stock motor and trans in and threw a turbo on it. Have done that before into third gens and cost is usually $2k-$3k.

Not for everyone but perfect for me

 

[tbone87]

Check out Hot rod Big Bang Theory its crazy. Won't believe if its all true.

Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

 

[Black Power]

I have around $3000 in my turbo 6.0 swap, and that does not include subtracting the v6 stuff, because I still have it. $750 engine w harness, $550 turbo, cheap trans, $350 injectors, and the rest is not too expensive. Mine will make at least 550 rwhp on fairly low boost and a safe tune. If the trans holds, I'm good to go until the 200k mile engine goes. I built all the stuff mine needed, which saved lots of money.

And yes I like your idea of the swap, but the sides look terrible. Please don't do that to the poor car.

 

[its2qik]

Well, after finding out my GN needed a new motor and finding out a built motor, bigger turbo and alky kit would cost me $9k installed AND only make 450ish horsepower I decided to yank the motor and do a 4.8 swap with my buddy Mike W (Swapper on LS1tech). Doing the Edelbrock Performer intake, ported 317s, 224/228 112 cam (cruiser so I wanted lope), T76 turbo probably running 12-15lbs of boost. Should easily d0 500hp but goal is closer to 600hp.

I'm not starting the swap thread yet till it's running (couple weeks away due to parts, waiting on custom cam and head work to be finished) but today when we ran out of stuff to do we started brainstorming with cardboard, lol.

Plans are to debadge it, powder the stock wheels gloss black (already done now), add a splitter, side exhaust (shaped like GNX vents) with matching side skirts and rear skirts (that is actually a complete bottom pan with diffusers). Here's what we came up with, taking to the shop tomorrow to start water jetting the parts...

Our goal with this build is to keep the idea of the Grand National (taking the Buick Regal and throwing at it the fastest GM powertrain we could build and blacking it all out, just going further with the rims) and the GNX (making it more of a muscle/race car in appearance and performance) and just taking it to what we think is the next evolutionary step in that line.

It's also getting a modern spoiler, GNX fender flares and still debating on changing up the hood (will look like a GN hood but bigger bubble, may even make it a shaker IF we can make it functional) and then smooth door handles.

THIS WAS ALL A CARDBOARD MOCK UP. The splitter needs a lot of work design wise but I'll smooth the lines out on the waterjet...

I'll keep this thread update as she gets the real parts... Thoughts? Flame suit on... lol.

Can you explain why you posted so many pictures of the exact same view of the car? Is there something different that we're supposed to be looking for in these pictures....like did you move a rag on the cowl or something?

 

[6LE Designs]

If you pay attention it shows how it was made, cardboard stage, painted, then on the ground.

 

[its2qik]

If you pay attention it shows how it was made, cardboard stage, painted, then on the ground.

Well, I forgot to take my medicine yesterday, so it was hard for me to pay attention. But I took it today and I did notice that some of the pictures have a styrofoam cup sitting on the cowl and some of them don't. So, I seem to be doing much better now.