A/C not as cold while sitting still

["Turbo-T"]

The retrofitted R134a system in my T doesn't get cold unless the car is moving. I understand air flow across the condenser coil is important. I still have the factory single fan in my car. I've tried moving it closer to the radiator but that didn't do any good.

I'm thinking converting to a dual fan set up may be the answer. How much of a temp drop in the a/c system do you think I'll have if I do dual puller fans? How much cfm do you think I need to have to draw enough air across the condenser to improve the a/c efficiency?

As for dual fans...I've read some here like the dual Dodge Intrepid fans...I believe 1993-97...right? I've never seen what they look like...is this a pic?:

But I believe I've also read these fans are known to have clearance issues or worse...to go belly up...? What's with that?

I also see Cal sells a dual fan set up....http://www.hartlineperformance.com/frontbox4.html I take it this is a plug n play designed to fit the GN radiator?

Not sure what to do here...thoughts?

 

[HouTX87]

Not cold or not as cold? I still have stock single fan, and converted to r134a. I'd first make sure the fan is always running with the a/c turned on.

 

["Turbo-T"]

The fan is indeed coming on anytime the a/c is turned on. It's not cold at all sitting still (it's cool, not cold) but does get colder when the car is moving. I figure since (so I am told) that an R-134a condenser is typically bigger than an R-12 condenser, that in this case, more airflow is key.

 

[norbs]

I have a retrofitted r-134 condenser and high powered cooling fans 50 amps and neted 58 degrees at a 95 degree day. I dumped the r-134 with an r-12 equivalent and now the temps are 45 under the same condtions and 36 degrees at night...........I would never go back to 134 in my life, but I run a massive 5" thick intercooler so your results should be better


The condesor is worth 4-5 degrees and the fans about another 5 degrees if you improve them.

If you do your test you will see a 1 degree rise every 2 minutes of idling time roughly.

 

[HouTX87]

Definitely sounds like an airflow issue. Mine cools fine at idle with the stock fan and condenser. Check for obstructions in front of the condenser. Really need to check the system pressures to see what's going on.

 

[charlief1]

R-134 doesn't cool as well as R-12 does. It requires higher pressures and a more effecient condensor to work right. What you're experiencing is normal so either go back to R-12 or get a better condensor. Sorry but that's in in a nutshell.

 

["Turbo-T"]

I did attach my manifold gauge to the test ports on the a/c. On the low (suction) side it ranges between 35 and 40 psi. But on the high (discharge) side it typically sits at over 200 psi.

When I did the retrofit, I used 4 of those 12 oz cans of refrigerant plus 8 oz of pag oil for the 134 conversions. I also swapped out the compressor, drier, orfice tube (red one) and drew a vacuum for an hr (held great overnight) last summer.

I've also checked the condenser and didn't see any obstructions.On another note, my car does typically shoot up to 212 on a hot day if sitting in traffic. I run a stock radiator but I run a 160 degree T stat.

Speaking of condensers, do they make a bigger one that is for R-134a retrofitted cars?

 

[HouTX87]

My r134 conversion took 2.5lbs refrigerant. I'm sure a bigger condenser and/or bigger fans would help.

 

[charlief1]

Speaking of condensers, do they make a bigger one that is for R-134a retrofitted cars?

You don't need a bigger condensor you need a more effecient one. They don't make one specific for our car but I remember 1 member adapting one from another car that was the same size and he was very happy with it.

 

[2QUIK6]

When I had mine converted just a few months ago the guy doing it recommended a new condenser that was a little bigger and more efficient. I also have dual fans and on a 95 degree day it freezes me out and have to turn it down from med to low fan speed in traffic.

 

[norbs]

Some people are having better results than others. It maybe due to the fact the way people are testing the systems. The heat is accumulative, which means if you idle for 5 minutes in traffic compared to 30 minutes , humidity outside temps, how bright the sun is etc, your all going to get different results. I've spent a lot of money all new parts and I have all the gauges, and high tech thermometers, etc. R-134 does not have the efficiency of r-12 period, yes it will work, but not as well as r-12 or a another alternative refrigerant. As i stated the condensor will get you 5 degrees lower and a better cooling fan another 4-5 degrees at extreme conditions. IE you will probably see 50 at the vents instead of 60F on a really hot day. ALso the higher head pressures of 134A will take out the compressor sooner as well. Over 200 psi your basically done for cooling in our cars. 4o psi on the low will get you evap temps in the 50's

 

["Turbo-T"]

Yeah I find it interesting that some say they have done the R-134a conversion and it gets 40 degrees at the vents. I know most of you have stated R-134a is not as good, I found one website claiming it's bunk...: http://www.griffiths.com/achelp/achelp3.html

On another note, my car has a 160 degree T stat and in the summer, the temps will climb in the 207-215 range, yet in the winter time it might hit 170 at best. Not sure how much true there is to this but I read somewhere hotter engine temps can contribute to detonation. Certainly not something I want/need while in boost.

 

[williamsGN]

I have the original condensor, stock fan, SLIC, 134 conversion and it blows cold for me. I'd check refrig. pressure.

 

[HouTX87]

I have the original condensor, stock fan, SLIC, 134 conversion and it blows cold for me. I'd check refrig. pressure.

X2

 

[BIGPSI]

Yeah I find it interesting that some say they have done the R-134a conversion and it gets 40 degrees at the vents. I know most of you have stated R-134a is not as good, I found one website claiming it's bunk...: http://www.griffiths.com/achelp/achelp3.html

On another note, my car has a 160 degree T stat and in the summer, the temps will climb in the 207-215 range, yet in the winter time it might hit 170 at best. Not sure how much true there is to this but I read somewhere hotter engine temps can contribute to detonation. Certainly not something I want/need while in boost.

you are running a little on the hotter side. i changed to a fbody rad and dual fans and on 90deg day in bumper traffic it never got above 168,with 160 stat. on a95 deg day if you are getting 50deg out of the vents thats good. mine seems plenty cold,just wish the fan blew harder like my newer cars

 

[Flyin Brian]

I switched from the stock mechanical fan to a dual electric on my Tahoe and the temp at the vents went down 10 degrees at idle. My Buick was running hot with the stock electric fan and when I switched to the SPAL dual setup it made a huge difference. Just because the stock electric fan is running does not mean it is moving the amount of air it is supposed to. Electric fans get weaker with age and don't pull the air they are supposed to. Your car is running on the hot side anyway. I would switch to a dual electric fan setup and see what happens. Couldn't hurt.

 

[Flyin Brian]

you are running a little on the hotter side. i changed to a fbody rad and dual fans and on 90deg day in bumper traffic it never got above 168,with 160 stat. on a95 deg day if you are getting 50deg out of the vents thats good. mine seems plenty cold,just wish the fan blew harder like my newer cars

I replaced the blower fan in my GN with a 12 dollar replacement from the auto store and it blows like a tornado now. Easy to change too.

 

[John Larkin]

I'd like to hear more about that blower change please.

 

[JimP]

When I had my car retro-fitted we put in a blue (Ford) orifice tube. With a Cotton's front mount, stock fan, stock condensor, Aladin aluminium rad, car never gets over 180*, fan comes on and stays on at 160*, the a/c temp centre vent is in the 40's even at idle, I have seen 36* while cruising, I used the stock compressor, new accumulator drier, and the 4 seasons retrofit kit. Your car is running on the hot side.

I tried doing a search for you but came up empty, there was on old post stating that if you did an r-134a conversion the blue orifice tube was recommended. That's why I used it.

 

[HouTX87]

When I had my car retro-fitted we put in a blue (Ford) orifice tube. With a Cotton's front mount, stock fan, stock condensor, Aladin aluminium rad, car never gets over 180*, fan comes on and stays on at 160*, the a/c temp centre vent is in the 40's even at idle, I have seen 36* while cruising, I used the stock compressor, new accumulator drier, and the 4 seasons retrofit kit. Your car is running on the hot side.

I tried doing a search for you but came up empty, there was on old post stating that if you did an r-134a conversion the blue orifice tube was recommended. That's why I used it.

Ford!