A challenge for Mr. Mease.....(NO!! It's not a gripe!!)

[Pitbozz]

I recently found this thread:
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/sh...d=108110&highlight=stock+location+front+mount
Alot of good reading and interesting opinions. But most of the replies were just that, OPINIONS. My challenge to you is take a GN with the mods most folks on here have (TE-44 or 49, 009's or 50's, fuel pump, afpr, maybe even alky) and do a comparison of the stock intercooler vs your bad boy vs a front mount. Even a car with a big shaft and heads would be a good test. I know comparos have been done before, but not with your bad boy. You may have already done this and know the results. I think it would settle alot of arguments and debates with a test on the same car, same mods, same day format. Maybe even do the test with race gas vs pump vs alky. Lots of interesting things could be found out. I know this would be time consuming, but real dyno numbers or even track results would be awesome.

I won't just limit you to the challenge....any vendor that sells front mounts could do the same tests.

What do you say guys?

 

[broke1]

GMHTP already did this test in their January 04 issue testing a stocker vs Mease's stock location. The only thing that needed to be added is testing a front mount.You have to remember one thing though,front mounts dont get heat soaked like a stock location intercooler!!!!

 

[5ltretr]

pitt great request

The GMHTP test was not in my OPINION a good test, it was only on a dyno and it had an 8ft fan blowing in front of the car .......

too much of a perfect world for our cars....being i just purchased a mease 15row, it will be intereting to see how much of a gain i got.

 

[broke1]

The fan is for radiator cooling. If someone were to put my car on a dyno without a fan on it id stop them right there and take it else where because theyd clearly not know what they were doing. FAN IS FOR COOLING RADIATOR NOT INTERCOOLER. And I beleive Pitbozz is talking about the nttr1(?) intercooler not a stretched stocker.

 

[Pitbozz]

The Mease cooler I am talking about is the one in the mag test, the INTTR1. But I agree that it wasn't a very good test. I am not knocking the intercooler. It blew the stocker away. But there were a couple of things in the mag test that were *suspect*. It says the car was prepped by uncapping the dump, filling it with C16, bumping the timing and increasing the boost before the Mease intercooler test. Were the same benefits given before the stock intercooler test? The INTTR1 is touted as a 9 second capable intercooler and the general consensus here is that a front mount is not needed until the 10's. Hence it seems like an ideal comparison. Same car, same mods, same day.

Mods...I posted this in the lounge, but the audience it is intended for is probably in the tech forum. Perhaps you could bump it there?

 

[TRBON8R]

My car would be a great test mule since I'm already running the steteched stock location IC that Keith makes for JC.........hint hint........ Hmmm, now I'm wondering. Maybe that new IC from Keith might allow me to expand the efficiency range of my TA49 just a bit more compared to the stretch IC......

 

[Mease Performance]

ben

Originally posted by TRBON8R
My car would be a great test mule since I'm already running the steteched stock location IC that Keith makes for JC.........hint hint........ Hmmm, now I'm wondering. Maybe that new IC from Keith might allow me to expand the efficiency range of my TA49 just a bit more compared to the stretch IC......

no you cant have one for free, a shroud was enough

being that there are just over 100 of the new intercoolers out there to date, I've heard claims from just about anyone and everyone. We have been over 150MPH with the INTTR1 intercooler as of a few months ago, meaning that it is not only a 9 second capable intercooler, but a 1000hp + capable 8 second intercooler - STOCK LOCATION at that!!!!!

As far as heat soak, we've been right on the $$ this time by offering the electric fan kit with adjustable thermostat. Consumer can set the fan to come on at any point from 32 degrees F to 400 degrees F. As soon as the fan kicks on the intercooler is completely to ambient temperature in a matter of seconds...or milliseconds.....the fan flows almost 1300 CFM in large volume....you could use this thing to pick up 12" of leaves in your backyard it moves so much air.

We've tested them over V4's, V4r's, Precision front mounts, cottons front mounts, ESP front mounts, CAS V2 front mounts, stock intercoolers, stock intercoolers with BIG necks, 15, 17, and 18 row stretches with big necks...etc, etc....the results are about the same.

I will state this BLATANTLY:

YOU WILL NOT SEE ANY GAINS WITH A FRONT MOUNT VS. THIS UNIT until approximately 9.50 ET's

As far as comparing this unit to the latest thunder fabrications intercooler....there is no comparison, our intercooler weighs in at almost 2 lbs less than the TFab unit, provides @25%+ more cooling capacity and I would say a conservative 40% increase in flow capacity. As far as price....compare that to the quality you are recieving, parts included, and the overall design structure. We too (within the next 3 weeks) are offering a new 21 row intercooler to compete specifically with the new Tfab intercooler (price-wise) The 24 row unit will most likely end up becoming a 30 row+ intercooler.

thanks!

HTH

 

[TRBON8R]

Re: ben

Originally posted by Mease Performance
no you cant have one for free, a shroud was enough

I don't recall using the words "have" or "free"? I just said that my car fits the criteria for testing purposes and that it would be interesting to see how your new IC compares with the stretch version

Thanks for taking care of me on the shroud, I'll let you know when it gets here.

 

[Pitbozz]

Hey Keith...

We've tested them over V4's, V4r's, Precision front mounts, cottons front mounts, ESP front mounts, CAS V2 front mounts, stock intercoolers, stock intercoolers with BIG necks, 15, 17, and 18 row stretches with big necks...etc, etc....the results are about the same.

I will state this BLATANTLY:

YOU WILL NOT SEE ANY GAINS WITH A FRONT MOUNT VS. THIS UNIT until approximately 9.50 ET's


For you to make such a bold claim, I have no doubt that the INTTR1 does what you say it does. And I really do realize how time consuming a test like this would be. But it would be great advertising if you put out the same or even better numbers as the front mount guys in a same car comparo. Maybe the guys from GMHTP would be up for doing all the leg work for you. But with or without the test, I'll end up with one in my car in the near future just for the fact of the stock appearance. It's hard enough to sneak up on folks as it is without a big @ss front mount screaming LOOK AT ME!!!

 

[Mease Performance]

Originally posted by Pitbozz
Hey Keith...

We've tested them over V4's, V4r's, Precision front mounts, cottons front mounts, ESP front mounts, CAS V2 front mounts, stock intercoolers, stock intercoolers with BIG necks, 15, 17, and 18 row stretches with big necks...etc, etc....the results are about the same.

I will state this BLATANTLY:

YOU WILL NOT SEE ANY GAINS WITH A FRONT MOUNT VS. THIS UNIT until approximately 9.50 ET's


For you to make such a bold claim, I have no doubt that the INTTR1 does what you say it does. And I really do realize how time consuming a test like this would be. But it would be great advertising if you put out the same or even better numbers as the front mount guys in a same car comparo. Maybe the guys from GMHTP would be up for doing all the leg work for you. But with or without the test, I'll end up with one in my car in the near future just for the fact of the stock appearance. It's hard enough to sneak up on folks as it is without a big @ss front mount screaming LOOK AT ME!!!

POST here and let us know which intercoolers you would like tested, and its on....I will test the intercooler versus the "others" on my own personal cars in the 10.40 ET bracket, we will also have this documented by at least 1/2 dozen reputable locals....for all those non-believers...

HTH

 

[86brick]

Originally posted by Mease Performance
POST here and let us know which intercoolers you would like tested, and its on....I will test the intercooler versus the "others" on my own personal cars in the 10.40 ET bracket, we will also have this documented by at least 1/2 dozen reputable locals....for all those non-believers...

HTH

Keith, I heard some guy in Miami that likes to run a lot of boost will be testing one of your 24 row ICs.... We'll see if it's any better than his stock IC with a cold box

 

[TRBON8R]

Originally posted by Mease Performance
POST here and let us know which intercoolers you would like tested, and its on....I will test the intercooler versus the "others" on my own personal cars in the 10.40 ET bracket, we will also have this documented by at least 1/2 dozen reputable locals....for all those non-believers...

HTH

Sounds good Keith. I vote for testing the 15 row stretch along with the other ICs. The 15 row stretch is probably the most common intercooler upgrade found under the hood of most TRs. It would be fun to see how far one could be pushed.

 

[Mease Performance]

intercooler test

As far as testing by Jensen and GMHTP, I would much rather do the testing ourselves....as it seems as if there were too many variables to be weeded out in the last test. Perhaps I can have a track day in the presence of the editors of the magazine, in hopes of it being published?

 

[Pitbozz]

NOW you're talking!! I am not sure what the numbers or names of the front mounts are (V2, V4, V4R??) but any of the more common ones seem like a fair test. I guess keeping them in the same price range would be fair, but it would look cool if you blew away one of the high priced ones! Others on here and yourself are more familiar with who the players are in the front mount market. Dyno and track numbers of before and after would be excellent. The criteria could go something like this with the same turbo, injectors, stall, heads, etc. and all tests done with the same gas/c16 mix:

Run the stock intercooler a couple of passes ensuring good traction for a baseline. Note the boost and knock to see how high it safely (say 3.5) could be boosted.

Run your intercooler with the same boost again ensuring good traction. Then see how much more boost can be attained using the same 3.5 knock rule.

Run the agreed upon front mount with the same boost as the stocker ensuring good traction. See how much more boost can be attained using the 3.5 knock rule.

Then declare a winner or at least a draw. If possible, you could try it on a couple of different cars. One in the mid 12's ( where most of us on here are) and one in the low to mid 11's or faster to see if the front mount pulls ahead. It would be great if GMHTP showed up and did it as a feature article.

 

[INEEDAGN]

Also be sure to see how much difference heat soak makes on them. I don't know how you'd test it, but I'm sure you could find a reasonably accurate way. I've got a stocker and want to see the real difference before I upgrade in the (distant) future.

bob

 

[Mease Performance]

Originally posted by Pitbozz
NOW you're talking!! I am not sure what the numbers or names of the front mounts are (V2, V4, V4R??) but any of the more common ones seem like a fair test. I guess keeping them in the same price range would be fair, but it would look cool if you blew away one of the high priced ones! Others on here and yourself are more familiar with who the players are in the front mount market. Dyno and track numbers of before and after would be excellent. The criteria could go something like this with the same turbo, injectors, stall, heads, etc. and all tests done with the same gas/c16 mix:

Run the stock intercooler a couple of passes ensuring good traction for a baseline. Note the boost and knock to see how high it safely (say 3.5) could be boosted.

Run your intercooler with the same boost again ensuring good traction. Then see how much more boost can be attained using the same 3.5 knock rule.

Run the agreed upon front mount with the same boost as the stocker ensuring good traction. See how much more boost can be attained using the 3.5 knock rule.

Then declare a winner or at least a draw. If possible, you could try it on a couple of different cars. One in the mid 12's ( where most of us on here are) and one in the low to mid 11's or faster to see if the front mount pulls ahead. It would be great if GMHTP showed up and did it as a feature article.

well there are a WHOLE can of worms opened here....

do you want us to test the IC's on a 12.0 car or a 10.50 car?

As more and more customers recieve our units, they are more and more impressed....at that point who really needs more than that?

Our new website will include a "testomonials" page which will allow us to post what our customers, and consumers utilizing our products on their vehicles. I think it'd be a good idea.....maybe I'll post the one pitbozz send us about the stock intercooler J/K

What do we need to do here???.....because we know if we do it on our own.....we'll seemingly be "proved wrong" by someone elses opinions

 

[salvageV6]

Keith buy me a FELPRO system and good program, swap it on the car with the new INTTR and then when I go .5 seconds faster we will say it was the Intercooler.

You'll sell a million of 'em to da dancing sheep.

Millerlite?

Just ran out of Genny Red, damm 30 packs don't last long.

 

[Mease Performance]

salvage

shame it took ya 2-1/2 years to finish that 30 pack....

I'd rather swap on a GTQ-71 and then the intercooler

 

[Pitbozz]

Most of the cars on here that have been modded are probably in the mid to low 12 range. These are probably also the folks that would be looking at going to a bigger intercooler as a future mod. I know the consensus is if you're not in the 10's, you don't need a front mount. Now with all that being said, it would be cool if you could do a low to mid 12 car AND do one of your 10.40 cars. If it is not possible to do both, I would say do the 10.40 car as it is more in sync with where most folks start looking at front mounts. Hell, I'm still trying to get to the low to mid 12's. If only I could find someone that could make a decent downpipe!!

 

[Pronto]

Pitbozz
I would like to see a different test. I would like to see a mildly modded TR ie: cai, catback exhaust/ test pipe, fuel pump/hotwire, afpr, colder plugs, 160* therm and a 93 chip (hey, thats me) that can run high 12s then try all the intercoolers from just a big neck, to a stretch, to the new Mease unit. That information for someone like me that has to take it slow with mods because of lack of funds would be a great help. I could decide how much $ buys me more power. I could also decide which one would be better to have IF for some reason I win the lottery or something and can do more upgrades like injectors, downpipe, turbo. When I got my car, my first goal was to be faster than my old T/A. With some standard mods I did that pretty easy. My next goal it to run in the 12-12.2 range with still being totally driveable and reliable like my car is now. I know it will take more than my current mods.