? about ball bearings and stall speed

[Black Box]

Happy New Year to everyone.

I'm planning on finally upgrading my stock turbo and IC to a BB turbo and FMIC this year. Right now, I have a hotwired Walbro 340, 009 42.5# injectors, 2800 stall 9x11 L/U converter, stock heads and cam. I'll probably upgrade the cam when I do the timing chain, sticking with a flat tappet cam.

My question is, since the BB turbo spools faster, does it negate the need for a higher stall converter at all? If so, could I get away with the converter I have now? It may hurt ultimate performance to some degree, I'm just curious as to how much? I'm thinking that it will stall a little higher with the increased torque production of a bigger turbo, but I have no idea how much (engine torque does affect stall speed, correct?). The car is primarily street-driven, with a few trips to the track each season.

I'd like to step up to a turbo in the upper 60-series, with a FM, bigger injectors (65#/72#/83#) and a new TurboTweak chip. I'm sold on the FM....NOT going with a stock location IC. I'm not real worried about overheating, since I'm putting an F-body radiator, external oil cooler, and hi-flow water pump when I mod the car this winter. Right now it has the original cooling system, except for a 160º stat, and it has never eclipsed 185º, even in traffic on the hottest days of summer here in New England.

Eventually, the car will get aluminum heads, just not right away.

Thanks for your input.
Steve

 

[suicide six]

I would say a BB turbo of that size will still need more stall than you have now,the extra lag might not be to your liking.Ive heard a BB turbo would not need as much stall as a non BB.

 

[suicide six]

BB turbos in the 60s range are awesome according to owners running them.Great mid and top end power.Though not as leaniant to turbo oil contaminates.

 

[Black Box]

Cool, thanks for the info dude.

Steve

 

[salvageV6]

If you are going for heads and a cam later on perhaps the 66 single ball bearing will work out okay with that stall.

Jack Cotton can tell you if he's had anyone running it with that converter and similar mods. you are planning.

My double ball bearing 70 spools just fine with my 3200 protorque.

Jack would know about what sizes those come in as well, one would think you could spool a double BB 60 series with 2800 stall, special order most likely from Innovative.

Worth the phone call anyway for info. and pricing.

 

[turbo2nr]

With that much power, you will need to pull the tranny anyway and start adding good parts. Start off with the tranny and converter, then go for the fuel system, then the turbo last.

 

[Black Box]

Thanks gents.
salvage, I was going to call Jack, but I sent him an e-mail directing him to this thread, I thought he might want to share his expertise with the community. I'm overdue for a call to him anyway, haven't talked with him in a while.

The trans has been rebuilt by Eric Schertz (through Jack), it's not the super-HD-billet-special version, but better than the stock rebuild (clutches, VB mods, hardened stator support, etc....). You don't think a HW'ed 340 is enough pump for this combo? Just curious. I highly doubt the car will ever go beyond 10.50's. I just don't have any intention of going faster than that....not with this car at least. :biggrin:

Thanks for the input guys
Steve

 

[JCotton]

Thanks gents.
salvage, I was going to call Jack, but I sent him an e-mail directing him to this thread, I thought he might want to share his expertise with the community. I'm overdue for a call to him anyway, haven't talked with him in a while.

Steve

Hey Steve, sorry to neglect you, I put you in the, "I'll have to answer that one soon" file...... Good to hear you're still kickin. I think the 61BB would be a good fit for your present combo, the 66 would be killa..... down the road. The frt mnt will wake it all up. You may get away with your present convertor also. It would be worth the try. Give me a call when you're ready, we can discuss options. But, I am having a winter sale through the end of the month on turbos, and other things.....

 

[dentmasters01]

ok, not trying to hijack this thread but I had to chime in and ask a question. BTW, hey Jack, I plan on giving you a ring soon and tying up your phone lines for about half an hour. lol I still need to re calc. my fast rpm grid.
Question: Is there any DOCUMENTED proof that the bb turbo's spool up faster in real world scenerios??? I mean right out of the box....maybe. But lets think about what goes on in the bearings with that hot, sticky, burt, oil that gets coated and baked all over the bearings??? Has anyone taken ONE car, TWO turbo's being identical except for the bearings, one a bb and one not, ran them hard off and on like daily driving and then compaired stats of spooling after both had been run for a while??

Just wondering.

 

[JCotton]

ok, not trying to hijack this thread but I had to chime in and ask a question. BTW, hey Jack, I plan on giving you a ring soon and tying up your phone lines for about half an hour. lol I still need to re calc. my fast rpm grid.
Question: Is there any DOCUMENTED proof that the bb turbo's spool up faster in real world scenerios??? I mean right out of the box....maybe. But lets think about what goes on in the bearings with that hot, sticky, burt, oil that gets coated and baked all over the bearings??? Has anyone taken ONE car, TWO turbo's being identical except for the bearings, one a bb and one not, ran them hard off and on like daily driving and then compaired stats of spooling after both had been run for a while??

Just wondering.

Not sure who else, but I've put enough of them on to experience the differance. Would this be Derrick....... give me a call, whats another 1\2 hourr.....

 

[Black Box]

Thanks for your help Jack. I'm thinkin late April will be my time. I'll probably have to get new injectors too, might run out of steam with these 009's?

Steve

 

[wagon]

Well, here is my take on this. I have a 66 BB, and a 9" 3000 stall. The 9" converter was an improvement over my 12". BUT, the BB turbo really woke things up. Spoolup is immediate. The only thing is, you are going to have to increase your tire budget. The difference is night and day. While an indepth study may tell you numbers, there is enough difference that you don't need one to know that spoolup is better. Alot better. Jack was right again, it was just what my car needed!

 

[dentmasters01]

Yes jack, its Derek in nashville.

Hey wagon, did you change the stall and the turbo at the same time??

 

[wagon]

Nope. I changed the torque converter, and a year or so later I replaced the turbo. The better converter helped spool up alot, but nothing like the ball bearing turbo. It builds boost immediately. It climbs high and fast. I think that I could get by with less stall than I have now, and it wouldn't matter much, but I like the combo that I have now, so I won't chance it.