Advanced Engine Theory and Design

[Alky V6]

How about more cubic inches?

I agree. I'm not familiar with the intricacies of engine block design, especially when sleeves are involved, but I would assume that the cylinder bore spacing would have to be increased. Maybe someone that knows more about that can chime in. If indeed the cylinder bore spacing was to be increased, that would require a lot of other changes in other parts that would include the crankshaft, cylinder heads, camshaft, manifolding and most likely the bottom oil pan.

 

[Alky V6]

A tall deck,raised cam with .250 thick cylinders. I think Big Stu was talking about a billet block for strenth. I'm all for the new forum ,theres alot of questions and taboo things that could be asked/discussed.

I like the .250 spec for cylinder thickness. It's good to see some others participating. What's the latest with Big Stu? How's his project coming along?

Lets look at crankshafts next. Anyone that has ideas to add pertaining to blocks is welcome to chime in anytime. The format is open. I'm just trying to keep things rolling.

Our choices of crankshaft are stock, forged and billet. Does anyone have any ideas of the operational limits of each type in a Buick V6 environment?

 

[turbodragster]

i think a thread of this nature will be benificial to all you know me im willing to try anything and i think info sharing like this will benfit all members

 

[Alky V6]

Turbodragster! Nice to have you onboard. Your input will be invaluable.

 

[The Swede]

Yo gang!

Since i'm from Sweden i have a hard time to write in English, but it's easier for me to read.....

But.... i like it really hard what you all guys write here, this is really nano technich to the top limit!!!!

I would like to send a special Thanks to all of you over there that are willing to share the latest tech to us over the seven seas to Sweden!

Just a simple note from me.... i wanna have acces to the oil lubrication system, personally support in our garage, sponsorship in the drivelane.... and on and on.....

OK.... back to business..... camshafts is a very,very.... important part of the engine... who will grind the best camshaft? Is it in USA or Sweden?
Hehehehe.... now i really sticked my nosed out here, didn't i????

You see..... one of our club members has disigned his own cam and braked a 2.3 engine to 1127 hp.
Another friend has braked there BMW 3.1 engine to 1422hp.

So...... what i mean.... is that: The sience is there, the tehnicials are there....... but, what we all miss is MONEY!!!!!

Could you all imagane what we could do if we had no limit of cash?

Yes.... maybe there could be a 3500hp's nitro burning V6 out there!!!

 

[Alky V6]

Yo gang!

So...... what i mean.... is that: The sience is there, the tehnicials are there....... but, what we all miss is MONEY!!!!!

Could you all imagane what we could do if we had no limit of cash?

Yes.... maybe there could be a 3500hp's nitro burning V6 out there!!!

Ain't that the truth.

Hey Swede! Glad you could make it. Pretty soon we'll have all the heavy hitters here.

I would like to add that I wasn't planning on getting into a discussion of who does this better than that. I'd rather keep shop names out of this. Lets present theory and design ideas here and people can argue about who the best, in the different particular areas, is in a different thread. Think of this as our think tank for ideas to further the development of an awesome engine.

If no one has met the limit of a forged crankshaft up to this point in time, let's just presume that a forged crank will do for our fantasy engine with a billet giving a maximum safety margin. The next question being, is a splayed journal arrangment strong enough or is the old odd fire crankshaft something that we need to keep in our tool box? Does anyone feel the splayed arrangment is not up to it?

 

[SPEEDSTAR]

Crank

My dream engine will have a billet oddfire crank with full circle counterweights,and the balancing holes will be pluged,. The oddfire crank will not flex like a split pin crank

 

[Alky V6]

My dream engine will have a billet oddfire crank with full circle counterweights,and the balancing holes will be pluged,. The oddfire crank will not flex like a split pin crank

I agree with you on the strength of the odd fire crank, and I'm tempted to go that way myself, but what about the vibration level that will have to be tolerated in an ultra high HP level (1700-2000 HP)? Could the high vibration level cause a failure of some other component of the engine?

 

[John Wilde]

I agree with you on the strength of the odd fire crank, and I'm tempted to go that way myself, but what about the vibration level that will have to be tolerated in an ultra high HP level (1700-2000 HP)? Could the high vibration level cause a failure of some other component of the engine?

Ken Duttweiler built a couple odd fire SS/DX motors for Ron Fruchey.
He had issues with them and did not really like the set up.
I will look back at my notes and see if I can get specifics.
I know that he had some valve train issues with that, but I don't think
those problems are still applicable.

 

[Alky V6]

Ken Duttweiler built a couple odd fire SS/DX motors for Ron Fruchey.
He had issues with them and did not really like the set up.
I will look back at my notes and see if I can get specifics.
I know that he had some valve train issues with that, but I don't think
those problems are still applicable.

I'm wondering if there were any issues with cracking blocks? Mounting area problems maybe. Looking forward to whatever info you can come up with.

 

[ijames]

Many of the guys who would be interested in this are here in Indy for the week. I met Mike Zimmerman this evening, who builds engines for Nick Micale and others, and as luck would have it he commented that an odd fire high hp motor would eat up a gear drive in 15 minutes, and that a belt drive wouldn't last much longer, so while the cranks are stronger in the odd fire, the cam drive problems are way worse. Even so, he said that all the comp eliminator type guys run odd fire, not even fire, so they can keep the cranks in one piece.

 

[Alky V6]

Many of the guys who would be interested in this are here in Indy for the week. I met Mike Zimmerman this evening, who builds engines for Nick Micale and others, and as luck would have it he commented that an odd fire high hp motor would eat up a gear drive in 15 minutes, and that a belt drive wouldn't last much longer, so while the cranks are stronger in the odd fire, the cam drive problems are way worse. Even so, he said that all the comp eliminator type guys run odd fire, not even fire, so they can keep the cranks in one piece.

Welcome to the thread Carl. The more heads the better. I'm not familiar with that class. About what HP level are we talking about in comp eliminator? E.T. target?

 

[JoyOf6]

About what HP level are we talking about in comp eliminator? E.T. target?

Class ET index for Comp Eliminator (NHRA) ranges from about 7.17 (A/D) to 9.94 (C/SM) depending on conditions. The competitive cars run 0.4-0.7 sec under the index.

Art

 

[Alky V6]

I was studying the NHRA Comp classes and BB/AT looks applicable to the turbocharged Buick V6 (274 CID) in a full body car. Minimum weight would have to be 2,247 lbs. Single or twin turbocharged with no restriction on turbo size(s), but restricted to racing gasoline only. No Alcohol or nitrous. Boy, I hate rules.

 

[John Wilde]

I was studying the NHRA Comp classes and BB/AT looks applicable to the turbocharged Buick V6 (274 CID) in a full body car. Minimum weight would have to be 2,247 lbs. Single or twin turbocharged with no restriction on turbo size(s), but restricted to racing gasoline only. No Alcohol or nitrous. Boy, I hate rules.

This is was Kenny Duttweiler ran the Olds in.
6.8 @ 204 with the V6
He now has the 280ci SBC.

 

[Alky V6]

This is was Kenny Duttweiler ran the Olds in.
6.8 @ 204 with the V6
He now has the 280ci SBC.

If I remember the article correctly, isn't the SBC 280 a small stroke engine?

 

[chevyII]

pics of engine

 

[Alky V6]

Beautiful! Notice tuned length exhaust primaries. Not simple shorties. I figure Kenny's engine is capable of over 2000 HP. That is 1000 HP per turbo and it looks like he's using 5 inch pipes after the turbo. A good example of the importance of low, or should I say 'no restriction' after the turbo.

 

[John Wilde]

There is some trick stuff in that motor, at least for when he built it.
The motor when I saw it being built had a flat crank and spalyed valve heads.
It made over 1833 hp and would have made more with bigger turbos.
The old turbos were GT42R/70MM, he was going to put 74 or 76s on it.

http://www.scegaskets.com/news/ics-titan-record-horsepower.htm

 

[John Wilde]

New valve material.

http://www.autofieldguide.com/columns/0606euro.html