Advice from the pros/old timers

[tobuyitright]

Ok here is what I have, Old Haltech piggy back system that controls the injectors from the best I can tell, also does not use a MAF meter. Going to upgrade, should I look for a stand alone or peice back the the OEM equipment with chips. I do have a old Stock MAF unsure of condition, but instead of spend money on a translator and lsi type MAF and go that route, I am wondering if it may be better to go the stand alone route. My plans are currently to run into the low 11s, Just bouight FMIC PTE and looking for a turbo and new DP/w/external WG. I have a old Delta Gate that works but what is everyone happy with that is currently out there? I like those TA performance w/external WG. Thanks for any help. I thinking standalone for the reson of future mods/and cost or buying power logger/directscan/MAF/translater/etc. P.S. Am I crazy and if so be easy on me. Just learning to love the Buick!!!

P.S.S. Noble was a great event to see, I just wished I would have brought me car.

 

[scot w.]

Ok here is what I have, Old Haltech piggy back system that controls the injectors from the best I can tell, also does not use a MAF meter. Going to upgrade, should I look for a stand alone or peice back the the OEM equipment with chips. I do have a old Stock MAF unsure of condition, but instead of spend money on a translator and lsi type MAF and go that route, I am wondering if it may be better to go the stand alone route. My plans are currently to run into the low 11s, Just bouight FMIC PTE and looking for a turbo and new DP/w/external WG. I have a old Delta Gate that works but what is everyone happy with that is currently out there? I like those TA performance w/external WG. Thanks for any help. I thinking standalone for the reson of future mods/and cost or buying power logger/directscan/MAF/translater/etc. P.S. Am I crazy and if so be easy on me. Just learning to love the Buick!!!

P.S.S. Noble was a great event to see, I just wished I would have brought me car.

Sounds like some old stuff! Okay, Not a Pro or an OL Timer But judging only by what you posted there are several questions one would ask you before Giving Advice and judging from the post your new to Buick TR's right?

1). Do you know how to tune a stand alone system or have you done it before?

If NOT,
I would recomend you hook the stock stuff back up, Figure out your basic Beginning mods like New - 60 lb injectors, TT Chip, XP Fuel pump, Hot wire kit, adj Fuel reg. , Scanmaster, your needed gauges and a spring cleaning to start with.

2). What are your goals!

It's easy to mod stuff over and over and over trying to reach your goals. Knowing your goals everyone can then give such advice.

First you need to have the right stuff to monitor the cars vitals before hamering on it or you will be doing a rebuild quickly! Everyone here is willing to help so please bare with the questions.
I would also like to add some advice, Pick a good reputable shop to give advice on mods and installs And stick with them!! They already know what works and EVERY buick TR owner has there own way that makes them power!! Buick owners are like Plumbers, You can have 10 different plumbers in a room and you will get 10 different answers on how to stop the same leak!! :biggrin:

SW.

 

[tobuyitright]

First No. Damn the Man
My Goals are to be able to run low11s but have a car that can do that with out running up tons of boost or alky.

By the way Thanks for helping, I have had a hard time getting into my Buick, No one has any in this area. Makes it alittle lonely. But being the only Buick Turbo T I need to get faster to save myself from another beating I took at that track a month or so ago. Have plenty of spare parts etc. Complete 4.1 factory engine just settng two 3.8 engines and even a stage two motor minus pistons. And then all of this old S#$t that I cant get past, though it does work well. Driveability is perfect.

That being said what works best long term? Powerlogger or directscan. Notice there both about the same price.

 

[turboclam]

How far are you from Ardmore OK? Did you ever find out what stroke crank you have that came with the stage stuff? Are you still wanting to sell the stage block?

 

[scot w.]

First No. Damn the Man
My Goals are to be able to run low11s but have a car that can do that with out running up tons of boost or alky.

By the way Thanks for helping, I have had a hard time getting into my Buick, No one has any in this area. Makes it alittle lonely. But being the only Buick Turbo T I need to get faster to save myself from another beating I took at that track a month or so ago. Have plenty of spare parts etc. Complete 4.1 factory engine just settng two 3.8 engines and even a stage two motor minus pistons. And then all of this old S#$t that I cant get past, though it does work well. Driveability is perfect.

That being said what works best long term? Powerlogger or directscan. Notice there both about the same price.

11's should be pretty easy!

The Powerlogger and Directscan are just "Data Loggers" They only Log data for you they are Not a engine management system. Powerlogger is much better than Directscan as in it does a lot more and has better functions.

Please list EVERYTHING that is IN or ON the car. Examples: Gauges? Scanmaster? Injectors? Fuel pump, Hot wire kit? Turbo? Converter? Everything.. This way others know exactly what you have and what you don't!

SW.

 

[Nick Micale]

Ok here is what I have, Old Haltech piggy back system that controls the injectors from the best I can tell, also does not use a MAF meter. Going to upgrade, should I look for a stand alone or peice back the the OEM equipment with chips. ............. P.S. Am I crazy and if so be easy on me. Just learning to love the Buick!! ........

From one "crazy" turbo Buick owner to another, do it right the first time and go with a stand-alone system.

If you are in this for the long haul and want to have reliable fun, step up into the 21st century and dump the chips.

Let's see, can a chip give you 10 or 15 items of data at 10 times per second, or can it add or take out fuel at WOT faster than you can blink, or can it control other functions better than you?

Sell you stock, antiquated computer and stuff to off-set some cost of the new computer system, and never look back.

Get to the right person when purchasing your system so you can get it dialed in properly, and you will be set.

After hundreds of runs with my stand-alone, I just review the data after each run to see if any issues show up like low oil pressure, temp, voltage, fuel pressure, etc.

Be happy to give you more details if interested, just call or e-mail me direct. I do not tune or sell these systems, but will give you details - good and bad - from what I have learned over the years.

 

[Turbo-Fun]

From one "crazy" turbo Buick owner to another, do it right the first time and go with a stand-alone system.
If you are in this for the long haul and want to have reliable fun, step up into the 21st century and dump the chips.
Let's see, can a chip give you 10 or 15 items of data at 10 times per second, or can it add or take out fuel at WOT faster than you can blink, or can it control other functions better than you?
Sell you stock, antiquated computer and stuff to off-set some cost of the new computer system, and never look back.
Get to the right person when purchasing your system so you can get it dialed in properly, and you will be set.
After hundreds of runs with my stand-alone, I just review the data after each run to see if any issues show up like low oil pressure, temp, voltage, fuel pressure, etc.
Be happy to give you more details if interested, just call or e-mail me direct. I do not tune or sell these systems, but will give you details - good and bad - from what I have learned over the years.

I have to respectfully disagree with you about the stock computer. You've obviously never experienced a TurboTweak speed density chip with the stock computer. Eric has the stock computer jumping through hoops. I just ran an 11.06 @ 123 last weekend with the TT chip. His goal is low 11's not 9's. The difference is a Fast system is $2,000. A TT chip is about $190 and has about 21 adjustable parameters. Now if he wants to go 9's then maybe a stand alone system, but I would still ask Eric (TT) first!

 

[tobuyitright]

Founf out who sold it to Roy

How far are you from Ardmore OK? Did you ever find out what stroke crank you have that came with the stage stuff? Are you still wanting to sell the stage block?

I have talked to the person that sold the stage items to Roy the original owner, and he(Phill from Tulsa) has offered to check out everything for me, he did however remember the parts and remembered Roy as they ran around together in the early 90s, told me the block was a virgin early 1985 block and everthing will be fine just needs cleaned up.
Prior to this point, I had tried to sell it here and ebay. However, I have decided that in no way will I except what Buicks are going for $$$$$$ at this current time. And because I currently have everything(With some exceptions) needed to make a Buick as good as it could or can get I would rather not sell anything that I currently own. Please do not take my words as harsh, I just have seen and been subjected to those wanting low ball and tell me that I have nothing of value. And if it werent for a few of the board members with honest intentions to help me understand these parts and cars I would have been diappointed about what some where saying.
Be clear that most were respectable, but a few..... well Im just glad and thankful for those that are looking to keep this Buick love going.
Also I am about 200 miles north of you on I35.
Were you at Noble?

 

[tobuyitright]

$$$$$

From one "crazy" turbo Buick owner to another, do it right the first time and go with a stand-alone system.

If you are in this for the long haul and want to have reliable fun, step up into the 21st century and dump the chips.

Let's see, can a chip give you 10 or 15 items of data at 10 times per second, or can it add or take out fuel at WOT faster than you can blink, or can it control other functions better than you?

Sell you stock, antiquated computer and stuff to off-set some cost of the new computer system, and never look back.

Get to the right person when purchasing your system so you can get it dialed in properly, and you will be set.

After hundreds of runs with my stand-alone, I just review the data after each run to see if any issues show up like low oil pressure, temp, voltage, fuel pressure, etc.

Be happy to give you more details if interested, just call or e-mail me direct. I do not tune or sell these systems, but will give you details - good and bad - from what I have learned over the years.

This is where Im at in my mind. If I were to put everything back to stock, I think that it may cost me around 1K or more.Need MAF Meter, Pipeing for that, Translator, any harness items missing, and logger(Do you get a logger with stand alone?). And all of the little things that are may be gone. And for an additional 1k plus an install I think it would be better money for the end result. (I cant believe I just put Buick and better money in the same sentence, well kinda. : ) ) Anyway, this is what I think..... I by no means have the experience to handle that task but do know some folks that could help if they are compensated for there time. But I just dont want to be going backwards.

And I know that I dont need these for my desired app. And if the Buick comunitty thinks that I should steer clear of stand alones, I am going to listen.
I just know that next for me to buy is that or a power logger and chips but that will require everything that I am missing. And of course the or....

 

[tobuyitright]

I will post a Sig as soon as I figure out how.

11's should be pretty easy!

The Powerlogger and Directscan are just "Data Loggers" They only Log data for you they are Not a engine management system. Powerlogger is much better than Directscan as in it does a lot more and has better functions.

Please list EVERYTHING that is IN or ON the car. Examples: Gauges? Scanmaster? Injectors? Fuel pump, Hot wire kit? Turbo? Converter? Everything.. This way others know exactly what you have and what you don't!

SW.

Really the car is stock long block and turbo.
Have 2600 stall, B&M Shift Kit, blue top injectors, adjustable FPR, Haltech/Laptop, External in line pump, and 340 Walbro, hot wire(Still in box need to install), PTE FMIC, BGC down pipe, Delta gate, I cant think of anything else right now.

 

[scot w.]

From one "crazy" turbo Buick owner to another, do it right the first time and go with a stand-alone system.

If you are in this for the long haul and want to have reliable fun, step up into the 21st century and dump the chips.

Let's see, can a chip give you 10 or 15 items of data at 10 times per second, or can it add or take out fuel at WOT faster than you can blink, or can it control other functions better than you?

Sell you stock, antiquated computer and stuff to off-set some cost of the new computer system, and never look back.

Get to the right person when purchasing your system so you can get it dialed in properly, and you will be set.

After hundreds of runs with my stand-alone, I just review the data after each run to see if any issues show up like low oil pressure, temp, voltage, fuel pressure, etc.

Be happy to give you more details if interested, just call or e-mail me direct. I do not tune or sell these systems, but will give you details - good and bad - from what I have learned over the years.

I tend to respectfully disagree also! The reason being, He's not familiar with a stand alone engine management system and unless there is someone very close to him that can dial the car in for him and slowly teach him how to adjust all the perameters I just don't think a novice needs anything to do with a stand alone engine management system! I think a novice needs to get the basic understanding of what does what with a stock ECM and a TT chip for awhile before jumping to a Stand alone system and especially if wanting to run 11's..

He did mention he's new to this, He mentioned his goal of low 11's.. Both of those together SCREAM "Stock ECU" set up and no need for a standalone system!!.. NOW if he don't want to go back to a MAF there is TT's MAFLESS chip that can also be used in conjunction with the powerlogger OR go with the Translator pro to get rid of the MAF..

Your going to run out of injector duty cycle with those bluetops pretty quick so an up-grade to the 60 lb injectors would be good.

Here is my recomendation: Stock ECM, TT chip, 60 lb injectors, Powerlogger, Scanmaster (updated for the powerlogger), Innovate wide band sensor wired into the powerlogger, new DBB Billet Turbo or just a TE-60, PTC 2800-3000 NLU converter, AND YOUR THERE! You already have the Front mount, fuel pump (would up grade just to be safe) 2600 stall, B&M Shift Kit, adjustable FPR, Haltech/Laptop, External in line pump, and 340 Walbro, hot wire(Still in box need to install), PTE FMIC, BGC down pipe, Delta gate.

I belive in the K.I.S.S theroy!


SW.

 

[machinegun]

I dont know all but I have played with the haltech system

Although not as fancy as todays standalone's it is one of the first stand alone systems for the Buick. This system was being used in the 90's for cars running into the nines. This system was used on Terry's 8.60 car for years. You will have to look at upgrading fuel, turbo and learn the haltech which the turbo and fuel will be around 1K plus any incidentals you will need. (Safety, tires, other items)

You could step up to a classic fast as there are more people familiar with that system however the cost is a little bit pricey. You figure about 1200 for a used one with the buick adapter cable. You will still need to add fuel and turbo upgrades.

You could go to stock electronics, upgrade fuel and turbo and also reach your goal.


Now for your goals Option 1 and 2 are really overkill from my perspective. We have run many cars into the mid tens with stock electronics, a maf trans and LT1 maf.

I think the cost weighing is going to be more your decision than anything else. Any of these options will have some cost it will just be up to you to decide how much you want to spend.

If you were to bring the car to me and ask my professional recommendation here is what I would say. Depending on itmes such as current condition of the car, drive train, wiring harness (cut for haltech) and spare parts you have I would probably recommend going to a stock electronics configuration for the goals you are wanting. Since items such as fuel and turbo will be needed anyway might as well go to something easier to tune and there are a ton of options for.

Anyway this is just my input and opinion

 

[tobuyitright]

I love K.I.S.S>

I tend to respectfully disagree also! The reason being, He's not familiar with a stand alone engine management system and unless there is someone very close to him that can dial the car in for him and slowly teach him how to adjust all the perameters I just don't think a novice needs anything to do with a stand alone engine management system! I think a novice needs to get the basic understanding of what does what with a stock ECM and a TT chip for awhile before jumping to a Stand alone system and especially if wanting to run 11's..

He did mention he's new to this, He mentioned his goal of low 11's.. Both of those together SCREAM "Stock ECU" set up and no need for a standalone system!!.. NOW if he don't want to go back to a MAF there is TT's MAFLESS chip that can also be used in conjunction with the powerlogger OR go with the Translator pro to get rid of the MAF..

Your going to run out of injector duty cycle with those bluetops pretty quick so an up-grade to the 60 lb injectors would be good.

Here is my recomendation: Stock ECM, TT chip, 60 lb injectors, Powerlogger, Scanmaster (updated for the powerlogger), Innovate wide band sensor wired into the powerlogger, new DBB Billet Turbo or just a TE-60, PTC 2800-3000 NLU converter, AND YOUR THERE! You already have the Front mount, fuel pump (would up grade just to be safe) 2600 stall, B&M Shift Kit, adjustable FPR, Haltech/Laptop, External in line pump, and 340 Walbro, hot wire(Still in box need to install), PTE FMIC, BGC down pipe, Delta gate.

I belive in the K.I.S.S theroy!


SW.

Keep It Simple Stupid, Got to love that.

 

[tobuyitright]

The old Haltech is and does work pretty good, car runs great. Can I run a power logger with the haltech and or chip upgrades?

Also if all I really need to get to the current goal is a TE-60 and injectors thats seems easy enough and relatively cheap. Saw where one of the board supportors are selling TE-60 for $600.00. And that seems like good deal.

 

[tobuyitright]

Ok I think for now until things are understood, I am going to buy a TE60 turbo, get with Turbo Tweak and see if I can run the Haltech with his stuff and order the 60# injectors and chip and a power logger or directscan. Work on that until I am ready to buy those GN1 cnc heads or TA version.
I need to replace the oil feed line and drain correct, when changing the turbo. Also does anyone know where I can get a gasket for the BGC elbow? Thanks Scott