Aftermarket PCM
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kidding? I could only wish. He flew from missouri to michigan to pick up his car. (like i said, they JUST finished it). Then he drove the 3 hours to ohio to race. He got ONE pass on the car and was then prepping it for another run.... He then drove it all the way from ohio to missouri.... (NOTE : I think he's from missouri, i may have the wrong state, but i know its a long ass drive...) They did credit him for winning the class at least.
The car has a 3800 with a modified M90 that took out their MP112 car. It ran something like an 11.78 if i recall.
The car has a 3800 with a modified M90 that took out their MP112 car. It ran something like an 11.78 if i recall.
Ken@HPTuners
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- Jul 1, 2004
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Thanks for defining the interface issue for me. I'm just wondering
how you know about it...... I don't remember mentioning that you had anything to do with it.
Please send me your check Charles. How many VCM's would you like?
Rather arrogant of you to think Chris or I need/used your VCM's to reverse engineer the code. Changing things in the calibration Charles won't tell me anything about the algo, math, Class 2 comm routines or hardware addressing.
Everything I need to know about a VCM comes out of the OBDII port. Not calibration changes.
You should know that. So how do you reverse engineer the code??
Ken
Actually I wasn't referring to me, I was making a joke..... But now that you bring it up...
Its rather arrogant for you to think I was referring to you or chris. I"m just wondering how you know(think) I was referring to you and chris reverse engineering our VCM's ??
Thank you for clarifying that VCM issue for me.
As far as the procedure that is the same basically between all the lines and if you already figured that out the v8, then all you'd really need for v6 would be calibration data locations and some of the math as its different. Some of it you know about.
Since the calibration also comes out of the port, you are correct, everything you need does come outta there.
As far as how do i reverse engineer the code.... You do not need to reverse engineer things you possess source to. When you reverse things you have to add a few NOOP 's here and there I've seen....
......Anyway, I have no clue about the hardware I was just being funny ...... BTW, you never did answer my email I sent you.........
Its rather arrogant for you to think I was referring to you or chris. I"m just wondering how you know(think) I was referring to you and chris reverse engineering our VCM's ??
Thank you for clarifying that VCM issue for me. As far as the procedure that is the same basically between all the lines and if you already figured that out the v8, then all you'd really need for v6 would be calibration data locations and some of the math as its different. Some of it you know about.
Since the calibration also comes out of the port, you are correct, everything you need does come outta there.
As far as how do i reverse engineer the code.... You do not need to reverse engineer things you possess source to. When you reverse things you have to add a few NOOP 's here and there I've seen....
......Anyway, I have no clue about the hardware I was just being funny ...... BTW, you never did answer my email I sent you.........
Ken@HPTuners
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- Jul 1, 2004
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Originally posted by beyerch
Its rather arrogant for you to think I was referring to you or chris. I"m just wondering how you know(think) I was referring to you and chris reverse engineering our VCM's ??
Because you mentioned Australia and you know Scott is a customer of ours. The two however do not coincide.
Actually all of the scaling comes from the PID's. All of the math is based on the hardware and algo. Everything I need to know about a routine and what it does, or indexing/location/size of a calibration table is done via IDA Pro. All of the inputs/outputs are from 20+ years of electronics experience.I have been doing this for a long time.
Wow! How did you get access to source code? I think you are the only one in the aftermarket industry to get a hold of that.
And here the rest of us get to do it the hard way.
Originally posted by beyerch
......Anyway, I have no clue about the hardware I was just being funny ...... BTW, you never did answer my email I sent you.........
I didn't know you wanted a response to your last email.
Anyway congratulations on your product release,
Ken
Thanks for the thanks !
In regards to the australia and scott vice verse, actually there are some correlations but this really isn't the place. Hint being, you shouldn't let intense employee's get drunk and talk business late at night. Hint #2, NEVER leave wihtout your handy digital recorder. 
If you'd like to talk about it and how i know there are, i'd be more than happy to discuss.
I've been doing what I do for a long time too, its too bad we never met as we could have some interesting conversations i'm sure!
In regards to the australia and scott vice verse, actually there are some correlations but this really isn't the place. Hint being, you shouldn't let intense employee's get drunk and talk business late at night.
Hint #2, NEVER leave wihtout your handy digital recorder. If you'd like to talk about it and how i know there are, i'd be more than happy to discuss.I've been doing what I do for a long time too, its too bad we never met as we could have some interesting conversations i'm sure!
Remove the two chips, from the Printec Circuit board, and read them. Then use a disassemblier, and get it to where you've id'd the code area, and calibration area. Then go thru, and comment all the code. All the while making sure it reassembles. Then just figure out the encryptment strategy.
I've had a few friends post the Source Code for the Syclone ecm that I put together. So far, it's just been just lightly commented. But, starting with a known good dissasembly, I have 14 months in it so far, and a ways to go before I call it done.
And that's just a 16K file.
But, it is the first one that I've really done mostly on my own, for a guy that can manipulate Micros etc., it can be done much faster.
But, there's nothing in the world like dealing with source code.
Ken@HPTuners
New Member
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- Jul 1, 2004
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Originally posted by beyerch
Thanks for the thanks !
In regards to the australia and scott vice verse, actually there are some correlations
Negative Charles. Hearsay if going to get you into trouble.
As the guy who designed the interface and wrote the firmware for it, I can assure you none of us needs any outside help.
We reverse engineer factory calibrated VCM's only. Write our own bootloaders, and design our own hardware. We were the first to give fast reprogram times and not kill the VCM in the process.
That's hardly a company who needs to cheat.
I you remember you contacted me after I disassembled some S19 code you posted on the forum.
Ken
yeah i was curious if anyone would realize what the s19 code was for ....
I have no doubt that you and chris are smart guys! Its the other guy I have the concern about.
As far as this source discussion goes I think they're too much being read into that. I don't recally saying what the source code was to, etc, rather it was to make a point about something, but sarcasm comes off way better in person than on internet boards !
I have no doubt that you and chris are smart guys! Its the other guy I have the concern about.
As far as this source discussion goes I think they're too much being read into that. I don't recally saying what the source code was to, etc, rather it was to make a point about something, but sarcasm comes off way better in person than on internet boards !
Hey Ken,
I want to see you prove what you are saying... You designed the hardware?? interesting you say that... You wrote all your bootloaders?? HHMM... interesting you say that. I would like to see you prove how smart you are and post something back to the community. When was the last time you gave something back like the how a 3d table works?? everything is now a business right... I think you forget the reason you are there... There were a lot of people that helped out when you where stuck, when you didn't have any hardware.. and when you couldn't get past simple things. And i know you are a guy that has helped a lot of people... but you no longer do... Maybe its a lot of work.. but i would like to see something new from you.
One thing to wonder.. if you have reversed engineer everything... and you have done everything by yourself.. why do you have so many editable parameters in the v8 and so little parameters in the v6?
There are a lot of rumors around hptuners and a lot of flame that went on, mostly not your fault and/or problem. but still you are part of them. Maybe you did a bad selection of partners?
what happened to all the people that helped down on that forum... what did they get in exchange???
Gary
I want to see you prove what you are saying... You designed the hardware?? interesting you say that... You wrote all your bootloaders?? HHMM... interesting you say that. I would like to see you prove how smart you are and post something back to the community. When was the last time you gave something back like the how a 3d table works?? everything is now a business right... I think you forget the reason you are there... There were a lot of people that helped out when you where stuck, when you didn't have any hardware.. and when you couldn't get past simple things. And i know you are a guy that has helped a lot of people... but you no longer do... Maybe its a lot of work.. but i would like to see something new from you.
One thing to wonder.. if you have reversed engineer everything... and you have done everything by yourself.. why do you have so many editable parameters in the v8 and so little parameters in the v6?
There are a lot of rumors around hptuners and a lot of flame that went on, mostly not your fault and/or problem. but still you are part of them. Maybe you did a bad selection of partners?
what happened to all the people that helped down on that forum... what did they get in exchange???
Gary
Ken@HPTuners
New Member
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I'll assume you are throwing croutons at a duck....Ok, I'll bite.
Yeah, I did. I have been doing electronics professionally for over 20 years.
My field of expertise is in radio and digital communications.
I have other designs that are responsible for saving lives when people dial 911.
Both the firmware and hardware design are my copyright. Period.
I beleive I said we. That means Chris and I. And that is copyrighted as well.
You are more than welcome to call Delphi, Motorola and Intel yourself to get the hardware addressing
needs so you can develop you own code.
I have always handed out information to people with nothing expected in return.
First I'm handing out commented code explanations, and now I'm helplessly stuck?
You have to be kidding, right? There were only a handful of people giving information
out on that site and Chris and I were two of them. The posts are still there, and nothing has been deleted.
My code reversing started LONG before that site existed Gary.
I still do within reason.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I hear rumors all the time.
Once again, we not I.
Chris has been working on the V6 code while I have been working on some new hardware
and keeping up with the latest V8 calibrations. If anybody is wondering, the VCM will now be controlling
the electronic throttle. The TAC will be leaving.
Chris won't add anything to a V6 file unless he has tested
it first. Please don't make it sound like we know nothing about it.
What some of the original members got for their exchange was the same thing I was offered.
Reprogramming hardware/software at cost.
You see I was not originally involved when they were looking to make it a business. I was contacted
when Keith and Chris found that their third member was lying to them by trying to pass off something
that was not his.
So as you can see, I made an excellent choice in business partners......
Regards,
Ken
Yeah, I did. I have been doing electronics professionally for over 20 years.
My field of expertise is in radio and digital communications.
I have other designs that are responsible for saving lives when people dial 911.
Both the firmware and hardware design are my copyright. Period.
I beleive I said we. That means Chris and I. And that is copyrighted as well.
You are more than welcome to call Delphi, Motorola and Intel yourself to get the hardware addressing
needs so you can develop you own code.
I have always handed out information to people with nothing expected in return.
First I'm handing out commented code explanations, and now I'm helplessly stuck?
You have to be kidding, right? There were only a handful of people giving information
out on that site and Chris and I were two of them. The posts are still there, and nothing has been deleted.
My code reversing started LONG before that site existed Gary.
I still do within reason.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I hear rumors all the time.
Once again, we not I.
Chris has been working on the V6 code while I have been working on some new hardware
and keeping up with the latest V8 calibrations. If anybody is wondering, the VCM will now be controlling
the electronic throttle. The TAC will be leaving.
Chris won't add anything to a V6 file unless he has tested
it first. Please don't make it sound like we know nothing about it.
What some of the original members got for their exchange was the same thing I was offered.
Reprogramming hardware/software at cost.
You see I was not originally involved when they were looking to make it a business. I was contacted
when Keith and Chris found that their third member was lying to them by trying to pass off something
that was not his.
So as you can see, I made an excellent choice in business partners......
Regards,
Ken
HEHE.. Well i know of a few members that never got anything...
I never said you didn't know anything about it, i have seen your posts.. and i have seen many of the things given and quite a few things that you have posted in the 454SS forums...
Anyways good luck with your project.. you got a PM.
I never said you didn't know anything about it, i have seen your posts.. and i have seen many of the things given and quite a few things that you have posted in the 454SS forums...
Anyways good luck with your project.. you got a PM.
INTENSE-Racing
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- May 12, 2003
- Messages
- 24
The best PCM we offer for your mod level is the INTENSE Standard PCM.
We charge $99 to 'tune-up' your PCM and take it to the next level.
We use and distribute the HP Tuners VCM Suite. In our opinion, it is unmatched in terms of value and ease of use. Their customer service is excellent, and that is also an important consideration.
Those statements are true and false respectively.
Locking the torque converter to artificially inflate dyno numbers is not a sign of competence. Nor is disabling the smoothing on the dyno chart to have the highest possible 'spike' recorded as the peak horsepower number. Any of us can use that method of 'tuning' and increase the reported horsepower on any dyno run by approximately 8%. That makes you look good in the short-term, but INTENSE is here for the long haul.
Unless your source code is a couple years outdated...
Scott
intense racing reported that dyno'ing in 2nd or 3rd will give you the same HP numbers. We always wondered why they then told everyone else to dyno in 2nd while they dyno'd in 3rd. We tested and found that intense was dyno'ing in 3rd to inflate their numbers and not telling the entire story.
At times we will lock the converter (even though on the intense web site it says that it won't work because they tried it). We do this to get accurate torque readings at low rpms. When we do we report as such. Our flagship M90 car which makes nearly 20% more HP than similarly configured flagship intense cars, has never had the converter locked on a dyno pull. I do find it funny though that the intense motto of not making excuses but making HP gets broken every time the owner of the company posts...
As far as PCMs go intense is VERY new to the game. On clubGP there are many posts of cars that blew up with initial pcms from intense as they were using customers for beta testing (w/o telling them). I haven't heard anything lately so they probably have those issues resolved by now.
Darth Fiero
3800 Series II Turbo
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2003
- Messages
- 235
where did I put that flame suit....
INTENSE-Racing
New Member
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- May 12, 2003
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Some people claim that dynoing in second gear will make the dyno record higher numbers because the engine can rev faster. Others claim that dynoing in third gear artificially inflates the numbers. Both theories have proven to be false on every car we've tested. The dyno automatically measures the length of time it takes to accelerate a fixed load, and compensates without final drive gear or transaxle gear being a significant factor.
Every comparison we've done showed numbers within 1%. This means that on a car with 300 WHP, the dyno numbers were within three (3) WHP whether the dyno was done in 2nd or 3rd gear. Also, in some tests the second gear numbers were slightly higher, and in others the third gear numbers were slightly higher.
We recommend dynoing in second gear whenever possible for four reasons. First, it doesn't take as long, so it's less stressful to your engine. Second, you'll experience less heat soak on a non-intercooled, supercharged engine. Third, you'll be less likely to experience a fuel starvation issue at some speed you might never hit in real life (i.e. 140 MPH). And fourth, you won't run the risk of hitting a speed limiter (typically 108 MPH in third gear on many 3800-FWD vehicles with stock PCM's).
I believe our Turbo Car runs 2.6 seconds faster than your 'similarly equipped flagship car'.
You are the most dishonest person I have ever competed against.
Scott
I won't comment on the 2.6 seconds because anyone that knows ZZP and INTENSE knows the truth.
As for being dishonest I find it's funny you call me dishonest in a post filled with lies.
If you don't believe me about your PCMs Scott I suggest you go do a search for yourself on Club GP. Here, I'll help you get started:
http://www.clubgp.com/newforum/tm.a...ning&language=single&tmode=&smode=&s=#1423049
There isn't enough server space for me to post all the dishonesty of intense racing and I'm sure people here don't care much to hear it anyway...
This is not intented as a FLAME. I do recall a while back someone lose a motor after installing a Intense PCM. i don`t know what was The out-come of the situation, but i am sure Scott took care of it. Intense is known for GREAT customer service.
I have be dealing with DHP for the past 3 threes. and all i can say is DHP is my winner. I am currently taking a EFI class in CT. The information i am getting from this class is truly priceless. it a tow week class and it cover topic from circuit board building to tuning text and dyno tuning. lost of formula to remember so i bring the old tape recorder.
It`s amazing how the educated consumer alway make the perfect dision.
Have fun guys.
I have be dealing with DHP for the past 3 threes. and all i can say is DHP is my winner. I am currently taking a EFI class in CT. The information i am getting from this class is truly priceless. it a tow week class and it cover topic from circuit board building to tuning text and dyno tuning. lost of formula to remember so i bring the old tape recorder.
It`s amazing how the educated consumer alway make the perfect dision.
Have fun guys.
