Ahh head gaskets and a oil bath *%@!!!!

[GSTOY]

I just don't believe it. Blew both head gaskets last week Monday morning on the way to work.

Long story short, I pulled the motor since the rear main seal started leaking and #4 had a exhaust valve that was missing part of the valve. Well, last weekend I got everything put back together and she fired off right away... much pride was felt because it was running the way it should be. :biggrin:

Anyhow, fast forward to Monday morning. I thought I'd take her to the car wash since it had been in the garage for over a couple months while I was working on her and was very dusty. Go thru the car wash and get ready to pull out onto the main street. I pull out onto the street and give her some gas, revs are coming up, about 3500 in first gear,and about 8~10# of boost, and then out of nowhere.....boom! Backfire....and was it loud....next thing I notice I've got smoke coming out the exhaust, and out from under the hood..oil landing on the exhaust..I could smell it.. the car is now running like crap, and I'm doing my best impersonation of Cheek and Chong...Up in Smoke. People behind me were putting on their lights to see. Thankfully I was 1/4 mile from the house so I figured I could limp it home, well I got her home and parked it. I was so PO'd...all the work I did has just been ruined in a split second. Well today I finally started to look at it. Oil is everywhere. It shot the PCV valve out and it looked like a stream of oil shot up, hit the underside of the hood and covered everything. Pulled the intake, and you guessed it, the fire ring is protruding, and I found bit's of it in the oil valley. Time to pull the motor again and fish out the pieces of HG that probably found their way to the oil pan.

Guesses as to why it backfired so violently? I can only think that some water found it's way into the plug wires, but I had sat for about 5 min, engine idling after I got out of the wash booth, surely everything would have been dry?

Steve

 

[jcj1407]

Steve, I hate to hear of your bad luck. I don't know what could have caused the backfire, but if I could help you out in any way let me know. Good luck. -Jesse

 

[BetMinesFaster]

Causes of backfires can be countless I chased a heavy load pop for a month on my car and it turned out to be a injector failing under load, also had a pop caused by a weak coil arcing to the module Also had a totally random pop that was caused by the alternator voltage falling at higher rpm but had no battery lamp! could have been water intrusion in your ignition system, could be alot of things....I would check resistance of the injectors, ohm all the plug wires, check plug gaps, Alternator output, check the positive cable and make sure its clean all the way to the starter, a grounded cable could cause a massive voltage drop and could make contact under a load when the engine is torquing..... Check for loose battery connections and loose grounds, also verify fuel pressure, a lean system can pop as well.......Thats about all I can think of off hand......HTH

 

[Ed Valvo]

Water in the intake?

 

[counterman]

I feel your pain. I just cannot seem to stop working on my car, either. I just want to drive the thing, but have a steady stream of issues coming at me. I need to bring it over to Century Transmission (5 hours away) for a real tranny rebuild, but I have to get a head gasket issue sorted out first. These things are a challenge to own and love, for sure. I've had mine since 93, so it looks like I am commited for sure! Just carefully examine everything closely as you go back together with it. Get it back on the road, and slowly work back into full kill mode. Make sure to check your heads and block surfaces for flatness, and clean, clean, clean with laquer thinner to give the gaskets a grippy surface to bond to. Good luck! Counterman.

 

[BetMinesFaster]

Water in the intake?

Good thought....Coulda sat in the intercooler untill the car hit boost.....Then Bang.....Slight hydrolock....Out comes the gasket.......

 

[Ed Valvo]

I've heard stories about people having cold air kits drawing air down low and then hitting a puddle. Engine was not happy....

 

[turbojimmy]

I agree that you must have gotten some water into the intake tract. That's a lot of damage for only 10-11 PSI.

It might not have been a backfire you heard. If the head gasket blew into the lifter valley it would make a VERY loud POP when the gasket blows. Then the pressure blows anything that's not bolted down off - like the breather(s). Oil comes out behind it.

Mine failed in a similar manner - with oil EVERYWHERE. Both head gaskets blew. Mine was caused by egregious amounts of boost on 93 octane fuel, but the results are similar. Make sure you check for broken pistons and bent connecting rods. Mine appeared okay until the bottom end was disassembled and examined.

Jim

 

[BadAssGN]

Sucking water into the MAF is a bad thing.

even at 10psi you should have been okay, What head gaskets did you use?

What fasteners?

What torque??

 

[GSTOY]

I used brand new felpro 9441PT HG's, ARP studs and I sequenced the torque over 4 days. day 1, 50#, day 2, 60#, day 3 70#, day 4 at 73# as per the instructions from ARP, and from several other board member recommendations. Before putting on the heads, the deck and heads were wiped clean several times with mineral spirits..I could eat off of both surfaces. Heads and deck were square.

Here's the kicker, had my powerlogger running when this happened, and I don't see any problems.

I did notice the felpro's were kind of flaking off the exterior blue coating just a bit, and other members have questioned the felpro's as to current quality. Personally, I've never had luck with the Felpro HG's. I can't tell you how many times I changed the HG in my 94 dodge caravan with the 2.5l 4 cylinder. A friend of mine knew a dodge mechanic and told me to get the OEM HG...I did, and that was the last one I changed, engine now has 74k+ miles now since last HG.

Anyhow, I think I'm going to try some stock HG's this time around, hopefully I get lucky and it's just the HG's and the rest of the engine is fine, (I need some good news right now...LOL ) which I think it is. It turns over by hand easily with plugs out, and I don't hear any strange noises.

+1 on checking the pistons and rods.

As always, thanks for everyones input and Jesse thanks for the kind words..will have to get together sometime

Steve

TT 91 octane chip, 42# injectors, Shorty BM Cold air kit (engine bay), Gbody 3" DP with test pipe, powerlogger, stock turbo, ngk TR6 plugs

 

[GSTOY]

Head Gaskets came off today

Since the weather cooperated, I finally got around to pulling the engine so I can get the head gaskets replaced.

I was surprised to see that the felpro HG's didn't stick to the head or deck like the factory ones when I took them off. I made absolutly sure when I put them on that the deck and head were very clean, it's almost as if the HG never crushed correctly.

Anyhow, went back with the felpro's, but this time spayed them down with some copper coat as a friend of mine suggested. Luckly the botttom end and bearings look ok, so we will try this again.

Steve

 

[turbojimmy]

I was surprised to see that the felpro HG's didn't stick to the head or deck like the factory ones when I took them off. I made absolutly sure when I put them on that the deck and head were very clean, it's almost as if the HG never crushed correctly.

You're lucky that they both blew into the lifter valley. That's why you got oil everywhere. They blew pretty thoroughly, too, almost like they didn't stick like you said.

Looks like you can slap new ones on and be done with it. Not too bad.

Jim

 

[Ed Valvo]

1,5,6 look weird like the head lifted a bit and the gasket is distorted. Could be the camera angle. 3,4 were blown clean off as Clint Eastwood would say. I say you sucked in some water. Maybe torque the studs a bit tighter? Or at least the upper row?

 

[BlackBandit]

Where the studs new? If so how many times did you torque cycle them?

 

[GSTOY]

ARP studs were brand new. Went thru 4 torque cycles.

 

[turbojimmy]

1,5,6 look weird like the head lifted a bit and the gasket is distorted. Could be the camera angle.

They're definitely distorted. Mine looked the same way and so did my brother's (we both blew head gaskets recently). I'm thinking that when #3 and #4 blew out so violently it distorts the gasket at the other cylinders? Kind of 'pulls' on the other material? If you look at the fire ring on the neighboring cylinders they're pulled toward the blown portion of the gasket.

What is it about the middle cylinders that causes them to blow there? Mine blew similarly at #3 and #4 blew into #2. My brother's blew out to the atmosphere at #3 as well.

Jim

 

[faster]

I feel your pain! I find it hard to believe you blew the head gaskets on 10-12# of boost. I don't think that would have even detonated 87 octane bad enough to do that unless you were "severely overheating". I think you pulled in a non condensable and hydraulicked. A spark misfire would not develop that much cylinder pressure. I have backfired at higher boost and never blew head gaskets like that, where they are completely blown out. I have only blown them completely out under severe detonation at over 23-25#+ boost.

Again just my 2 cents but I would look for the source of a non condensable.

I just finished putting everything back together after blowing the head gasket in 5 cylinders where they were completely blown out between two head studs. Same scenerio water and oil and smoke everywhere and bent fins over in the turbo too.

Mine was from the trans letting go in second gear at WOT and sending the boost and RPM's God knows thereby creating more boost than pump gas is happy with.

These are finicky vehicles and they are not forgiving with tuning errors. You can beat on and detonate most normally aspirited motors and get away with it. Not these.

New transmission.

New everything in the engine.

New Turbo.

Heads & intake ported.

$7000.00 later and wifey not happy.

Ran 11.22 @123MPH on the old motor.

Can't wait to try this new one.

OOHHHH BABY does it feel good though.

Mikey

 

[charlief1]

I used to use the 1000 series gaskets but never experienced any thing like that thank god. With your pistons on #3 & 4 black I doubt you had water in the cylinders. It almost looks like you had a hot spot or gasket movement. Check your surfaces and see if there's any any warpage before you go back togather.

 

[GSTOY]

Looky what I found in the oil pan

I did check all the surfaces..they are straight. I'm going back to the HG's never seated right, and that caused all the problems, although I went back to the car wash and the wash that I selected did do a underbody spray, so I guess it would also be possible to injest water, but I have a 9" kn shorty BM that kind of tucks up by the front drivers side area where the fuel evap sat. I would think the KN filter since it's oiled would sort of repel water?

Ok got the chance tonight to pull the oil pan...what a mess..pieces of HG everywhere

Where can one find a oil pickup and gasket? This thing has you know what all over it.

After seeing all that, it kind of worried me, so I peeked at the rod and main bearings, Whew... they are ok for 110k miles.

Edit...sorry for all the pics, but I think they help explain things. I think this is also a good example of why you should pull the pan after a HG blowout. Just my .02

Steve

 

[ALVAROG1983]

Hg

I did check all the surfaces..they are straight. I'm going back to the HG's never seated right, and that caused all the problems, although I went back to the car wash and the wash that I selected did do a underbody spray, so I guess it would also be possible to injest water, but I have a 9" kn shorty BM that kind of tucks up by the front drivers side area where the fuel evap sat. I would think the KN filter since it's oiled would sort of repel water?

Ok got the chance tonight to pull the oil pan...what a mess..pieces of HG everywhere

Where can one find a oil pickup and gasket? This thing has you know what all over it.

After seeing all that, it kind of worried me, so I peeked at the rod and main bearings, Whew... they are ok for 110k miles.

Edit...sorry for all the pics, but I think they help explain things. I think this is also a good example of why you should pull the pan after a HG blowout. Just my .02

Steve

I JUST DID MINE AFTER BLOWN A HG I WENT WITH RJC GASKETS AND TROQUED THEM AT 90 INSTEAD OF 85 TO BEGIN WITH STILL NEED TO DO THE HEAT CYCLE HOPEFULLY EVERYTHING TURNS OUT TO BE OK HAD COPPER GASKETS BEFORE.