Americans lossing there FREEDOM!

[Buick From Hell]

The problem with a lot of big business is that 5% of the workforce takes home 90% of the profit. The employees & stockholders are forced to split up the rest. Since it's only fair that those sitting at the corporate roundtable make 10 or 20 million a year and stockholders are important for cash flow, when push comes to shove, they'll find cheaper employees.

Unions...I'm a pretty lousy historian and have an equally crappy memory, but it seems to me unions were formed WAY back, to keep the mostly immigrant dockworkers from becoming slaves to the greedy shipyard owners on the east coast. Problem is, the greed shifted. Nuff said, and I'm done.

 

[Rogue Leader]

Originally posted by Buick From Hell

Unions...I'm a pretty lousy historian and have an equally crappy memory, but it seems to me unions were formed WAY back, to keep the mostly immigrant dockworkers from becoming slaves to the greedy shipyard owners on the east coast. Problem is, the greed shifted. Nuff said, and I'm done.

couldnt have said it better myself!

 

[azgn]

nothing is going to stop the "overseas" trend.....the world is in competition with us

if you cannot do the job as efficiently (cheaply) as your counterpart in China, we have a problem.....blow up all the Walmarts and the problem would go away!

 

[Pronto]

My grandfather was a coal miner in West Virgina. Between unsafe mining practices and the coal dust it was a very dangerous job. The corporations that ran the mines did nothing to protect the workers, in fact they set up company stores that just put the workers in debt. It wasn't until union strikes got the attention of the high ups did the conditions change. Years latter when black lung disease became documented, it was the democrates that pushed legislation forcing the mining companies to reimburse employees that were diagnosed with the disease.

Do big busnesses care about their employees and or stock holders? Let's see; Enron, Tyco and World Com kind of jump right out. Greedy self centered CEOs et al cost the company investors, employees and the US government BILLIONS if not TRILLIONS of dollars in ruined 401ks, confidence in the market and lost tax revenue from now unemployed workers and investors that sold at a loss.
Now obviously there are many excellent companies that do very well for the high ups but also are fair to the employees and even the environment. Unfortunately they are not the norm. The ultra rich business heads get so wrapped up in their money and power that they think they can do anything and get away with it. It's all a game to them, no matter who gets hurt.

 

[Silver 6]

The are places where unions have done good for its members and the country as a whole. I served with people who lost parents to the mines or the slow death after they quit. But we certainly can not put all unions in white hats and robes, pure of heart.

Shall we start looking for the press record of the greedy self serving, crooked Union Leaders? How many pension plans have been plundered by the leaders they elected and trusted? Health insurance accounts?

But they have $44,000,000 at the national level to award to the Democratic ticket. This does not include the funds taken from the local level. Or the pressure put on individual members to contribute.

NAFTA is said to have brought a higher number of jobs to America than we lost. The problem for unions is most of the jobs lost were well paying union jobs. President Clinton pushed for and signed NAFTA. So the unions must be OK with it after all. They keep paying.

The unions say they would like to have new natural gas fields, new oil production fields and the pipe lines to support the fields. This would produce thousands of union jobs. The Democrats are blocking all of it. So the unions must be OK with that after all. They keep paying.

We currently have one of our largest new housing booms going on. Minority home ownership is at an all time high. Most of this housing is being built with union labor. But the unions are chosing to again support the party who says this is the 'worst economy ever." So the unions must NOT be OK with that.

Steel prices in the 1990s were so bad scrap yard stacked the flattened cars in the yard. They couldn't afford to sell at the prices for scrap. Steel price are rising again. North of me on the iron ranges the ore production is starting again and people are going back to work, exporting from Northern Minnesota. So, again, the unions must NOT be OK with that.

It doesn't really matter what I tell you. Once your in the union, you don't get a choice. What the union says, you'll do.

 

[csierra]

I am not a member of a union, but I wish I was. I work for a big corporation where I'm just a number. I do not see the logic in busting your A@# everyday while some of you coworkers who do not pull their own weight only get 6 to 8 cents less than you as a raises. That's worth it isn't it. Then when you go to your supervisor about it they can't do anything about it because your raises are controlled by a corporate person you have never seen. It's also nice to have the company give a raise whenever they decide it's convenient for them. Also to do work that you should be getting paid for but your not. It's also scary to see guys put in twenty years with the company, making decent money just get laid off one day and have the company keep the cheap labor. I would leave the company I work for but it's pretty much a monopoly with no other competition in this industry.
I don't think unions are needed in every company. For example, in small businesses where hard work is actually appreciated. In fact if companies actually treated their employees right and with respect employees would not form unions. At least I know I wouldn't want to have a union.

 

[turbot2496]

Well, I'll throw my 2 cents in... I think at one time unions were needed but now they are a joke. I used to be a foreman at a warehouse and recieving was one of my responsibilitys. I could always tell which trucks product were loaded by union people and which were not. I asked one driver who was unloading a god awfull mess of product why he didn't complain to his supervisor about it. He told me " Oh no, you don't want to do that. #1 they won't do anything about it and #2 if the union finds out they will load my truck so bad I'll never get it unloaded." Now I drive a truck and have to pick up product at different places and once again I can instantly tell when I walk in a place whether it is union or not just by the work attitudes of the employee's. Union employee's as a general rule are lazy and will do less than a quarter of the work of a group of illegal aliens. The ironic thing is these silly people pay union dues and get absolutly nothing for them other than getting to screw off all day. Then they wonder why their company goes bankrupt. The people making money are the union reps. I've heard of some of these guys making hundreds of thousands and they usually end up negotiating you a worse deal than the non-union place down the street.

 

[turbot2496]

Also csierra a union would not solve one of the problems you are upset about. It would probably make it worse. If your working somewhere and the writings on the wall that you cannot advance any further and you want to - then start looking for somewhere you can.

 

[myclone]

Unions arent perfect.. Never were nor will they ever be.

But.... Im union and proud of it. You guys who call union member lazy this and worthless that can have at it. People that are union members and bright enough to understand how it works enjoy the benefits.

Example: I worked my birthday in which case I recieve my regular pay plus double time which was negotiated by my union. So, for 12hrs I got paid almost $63 per hour. Do the math... Im not ashamed I can get paid like that either as I can asure you that the company didnt care if I was making $500 an hour. They needed the work done and wanted me to come in on my B day.

Im sorry but I dont feel the least bit guilty..none. nada. Whens the last time you ever saw a CEO give himself a pay cut? If the company is typical big business then never. Im getting all I can get for as long as I can while doing some damn fine quality work that NO diaper head/illegal alien/pick one could come close to. Period.

Have a nice day

 

[sixgun86gn]

Glad to hear your birthday is some kind of national holiday.Please let me know when it is so I can be sure to be paid triple time next time I work on it.

 

[myclone]

Originally posted by sixgun86gn
Glad to hear your birthday is some kind of national holiday.Please let me know when it is so I can be sure to be paid triple time next time I work on it.

LOL... I'll make a note to be sure and do that. FWIW, same goes for everyone that works where I do. You work on ANY holiday and/or your birthday its tripple time.

The point I was trying to make that you obviously didnt get was that without union representation those nice little perks wouldnt exist except in extremely rare working enviroments. Id like to see just about any non union work place do that via their own free will. LOL, the bean counters would have a coronary even at just the mention of it.

 

[ThikStik]

If we can just get some more illegals to jump the border, everything will be allright!
Sarcasm? Oh yea.

 

[BlownZ]

Originally posted by chevyII
Only 12% of the work force is union and did that stop the overseas trend? Ill take the punches for my spelling I shouldn't post after the sixth beer

ahh that explains it...you must be at work.

 

[BlownZ]

Unions are the savior of the underachievers that expect the government to take care of them. My father was Union his entire life....He made 25 bucks an hour with all of the double and triple time perk crap that unions have and the man had the nerve to bitch about the company he worked for. He made them out to be some kind of evil empire all the while he was making 70-80k a year with his overtime with no education and skills that are abundantly available from any tech school.

I don't begrudge him for it of course but don't be surprised when your company packs up and heads for cheaper grounds. You reap what you sow and John Kerry sure as hell won't stop it from happening.

 

[S2V6RACER]

Basically, get some skills that few posess, open your own business or deal with it. People do not fire other people who make them money. If you can't negotiate your own wage then you need a union to do it for you. I do agree that unions were good for maintaining good working conditions, but if you need them to make you your money then you need to re-evaluate your situation or don't think so highly of yourself.

Company owners deserve the right to make more of the money, they started and took the chances and GIVE you the place to work. That is just the way the game is.

 

[GNandGS]

Originally posted by myclone
The point I was trying to make that you obviously didnt get was that without union representation those nice little perks wouldnt exist except in extremely rare working enviroments. Id like to see just about any non union work place do that via their own free will. LOL, the bean counters would have a coronary even at just the mention of it.

Depending on the union and location, some of these perks are offset some by the DUES you pay. Factor in some choices made FOR you (that you may not like) and some members out there may not think it was worth it.

Union deals like that work about as well as price fixing.

S

 

[chevyII]

I more than happy to give my union dues every month. Its money well spent,500 a year. I dont know about other unions but there was a study on productivity on construction type jobs and union workers were 17% better. Most have a 5-7 years of training before your totaly in the union. If the unions drive up costs of manufacturing of goods, name on a product in a US store that has significanly droped in price since going overseas? thats right top dog pocketed the money so the real lossers are the workers no job and the same costs.

 

[turbot2496]

Well its hard to make a statement about everybody in unions but as a general rule through my experience places with union employees suck and I see alot of them. The ironic thing is that they think its funny that they can screw off all day and nobody can do nothing about it as long a they stay within the lines so to speak. Union members usually have no loyalty to the company they work for. They envision it as an evil place that the union is protecting them from ie. union brainwashing. As for the guy getting triple time for his birthday ... LOL your paying union dues . Everything you think you got, you just signed over to your union. You'll be the loudest one crying when they send your 63 and hour job overseas and get it done for .25 an hour. Everybody at my place gets paid for holidays whether we work them or not and our birthdays are considered holidays ..... LOL and were not union. Imagine that. How can they do it?? We work our butts off thats how and our company is on top of its game because of it and very profitable. Our company keeps track of our individual performance and if someone is screwing around and not with the program, he's shown the door and we don't have to go consult with his union rep before we can his lazy butt. As for you Chevy 2 send me your 500 a year and I will be happy to go hang with your bosses out on the golf course and negotiate you another sweet labor deal.

 

[Rogue Leader]

I hear an extreme undertone here that basically EVERY non-union Company has a corrupt board of directors that basially sticks it to all its employees and squeezes every last penny out of everyone. That does happen, but theres HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of companies in the US and a good amount of them DONT do that. Yeah theres some bad apples, but on average you can walk in and look at the wages of any given non-union company and find people being paid fairly.

Despite what you think not every CEO is out to screw you, however for all you good union workers out there theres a heck of a lot more bad ones and thats why you see union businesses going out of business beacuse the employees contracts are screwing them (Triple time on your brithday and holidays??? are you ****ting me?? If I had a business I would tell you to stay the f*ck home before paying anyone triple time). I dont blame the union guys either, because why should you break your ass when theres a guy next to you not breaking his ass getting paid the same and not having to worry about a thing. As long as you do just enough to merit your "pay scale" youre good to go. The worst union guys are the government jobs that are union, nothing like my taxes paying for people to jerk off half the day.

Unions were good for employees at one time, now they are a dinosaur of the past and a leech on corporate america, we would be better off if all unions were dissolved and people got paid for the effort they put into their job.

PS if youre in a corporate job and you feel as if youre going nowhere, cant advance etc... its time to get off the freekin titanic and find another job instead of siting there and whining about it. Whatever happened to ambition these days???? You cant expect everyone to hand you raises and better jobs on a silver platter!

edit: i also second what turbot2496 just said!

 

[zam70]

It's still beyond me why you are so sour about the owners of the company making mega bucks???

Who takes the risk? Who pays insurance? Who has all of the investment?

You DAMN right the Top Dogs should be making the money - If it wasn't for them, the lazy union workers wouldn't have a job to go to.

At my shop (non union) we pay union wages and employ some ex union guys. The ex union guys are the most unmotivated underproducing employees I have. They come in exactly at 8, leave exactly at 5 and make sure they take every break and lunch they can, I don't deny them this but if a job has to be completed, skip a break...every one else does it (except the union guys) make a few sacrafices for the - dare I say it - COMPANY who employs you.

The perception of a job has changed. If you HAVE a job - be happy and make a few sacrafices for the employer (I know I do) to show your appreciation. Feel lucky your employer has done you the favor of LETTING YOU WORK THERE.
Most union guys think the employer should be glad they work for them...BZZZZZZZZZZ wrong -

Want to see a union at work? Go by any construction site...you wanna know why they need that many people? Because they're only getting half the production needed out of each one.

My father inlaw is a 30 year union carpenter. He's terrible. I can out produce and produce better quality then he even imagines.

Wonder why your house isn't square (trust me, it isn't)??? Yep - fine union labor...

Unions are a good idea gone bad.
I'm done