Annoying ticking sound

[ikle]

Weird. You should have lefts and rights showing offsets for the pushrod cups. I believe you just found your problem. Where did you get those rockers?

Earl,
1) Since I am using the stock factory rocker shafts/rocker arm assembly, that where on this motor since new, there would be no chance of having the rocker arms reversed and there would be no L or R stamped on the rockers, correct ?
2) If the only offset on the rocker shaft assembly are the pushrod cups and they are original to this motor it shouldn't matter if the drivers rocker shaft assembly where mounted on the pass head, correct?
3) If the push rod in question for #2 intake valve isn't bent then I would have to assume that this is how it was assembled from the factory, agreed ?

So if all this is correct the ticking sound I am experiencing isn't being caused by the upper valve train ( push rods, rocker arms and rocker shafts ). Right ?

While I am in there I am going to measure the open and closed heights of the rocker assembly to elliminated a worn out cam lobe.

Is there anything else I should check before I reinstall the valve covers. Thanks for all your help, Kyle.

 

[Buick Mark]

Is it normal for a couple of the push rods, on each head, to be that close to the head ? I also borrowed my bosses smoke machine and there was no leaks present at the headers, it did have a pretty good leak at the DP to turbo so I am going to try one of Mark Hoffman DP gasket and retest.

Yes its normal, is it desireable? No, but you cant do a lot about it, Ive had a lot of Buick engines that had pushrods rubbing, OR had evidence of having rubbed at one time, but it never caused any ticking

 

[ikle]

Your rubbing pushrods are not your problem. I bet you have a header leak

I been thinking about your statement of being a possiable header leak so I am going to remove the DP duct tape the exhaust housing and try smoking the headers and cross over pipe. I don't think it would leak since they are TA
stock replacement headers that where only installed 2 years ago and all the hardware were retorqued as per instructions, but with this car anything is possiable. I'll repost this coming weekend. Thanks again, Kyle.

 

[ikle]

Update !!! Well today I used the smoke machine again and found a few header leaks, one at #5 and #6 cyl and the other at the crossover to header connection on the drivers side, Buick Mark was right, time for RemFlex gaskets.

I also installed the rocker shaft assembly's and torqued them down to 25 foot lbs. I noticed, after the installation when the valves where closed, I could rotate some of the rocker arms lifting them off the valve by hand and others would not. Did a quick search and I would guess this is caused by some of the lifters bleeding down. The car has been sitting a week or so, is this normal ??? Thanks for the input, Kyle.

 

[ikle]

Next I am going to measure the open heights of the rocker arms to make sure I have a healthy cam.

 

[Buick Mark]

Update !!! Well today I used the smoke machine again and found a few header leaks, one at #5 and #6 cyl and the other at the crossover to header connection on the drivers side, Buick Mark was right, time for RemFlex gaskets.

I also installed the rocker shaft assembly's and torqued them down to 25 foot lbs. I noticed, after the installation when the valves where closed, I could rotate some of the rocker arms lifting them off the valve by hand and others would not. Did a quick search and I would guess this is caused by some of the lifters bleeding down. The car has been sitting a week or so, is this normal ??? Thanks for the input, Kyle.

Yes, the sloppy rocker arms on the shaft are normal, they'll wiggle and rattle around, no need for concern, especially if the car has been sitting for a bit. Same issue on the Buick V8's. When the car is running and the lifters are full of pressurized oil, the pushrod pushes up on the underside of the rocker arm which seats the rocker firmly on the underside of the rocker shaft, removing any clearance. When the engine is off, that all goes away.

 

[ikle]

Yes, the sloppy rocker arms on the shaft are normal, they'll wiggle and rattle around, no need for concern, especially if the car has been sitting for a bit. Same issue on the Buick V8's. When the car is running and the lifters are full of pressurized oil, the pushrod pushes up on the underside of the rocker arm which seats the rocker firmly on the underside of the rocker shaft, removing any clearance. When the engine is off, that all goes away.

Mark thanks for the info, working on this car is one learning experiance after another, some good and some bad. But at the end of the day I can say I did it all myself. Thanks again, Kyle.

 

[ikle]

Mark thanks for the info, working on this car is one learning experiance after another, some good and some bad. But at the end of the day I can say I did it all myself. Thanks again, Kyle.

With a lot of help from the good people here at TurboBuick. Thanks again everyone for the help, Kyle.

 

[vacuum 6]

Update !!! Well today I used the smoke machine again and found a few header leaks, one at #5 and #6 cyl and the other at the crossover to header connection on the drivers side, Buick Mark was right, time for RemFlex gaskets.

I also installed the rocker shaft assembly's and torqued them down to 25 foot lbs. I noticed, after the installation when the valves where closed, I could rotate some of the rocker arms lifting them off the valve by hand and others would not. Did a quick search and I would guess this is caused by some of the lifters bleeding down. The car has been sitting a week or so, is this normal ??? Thanks for the input, Kyle.

Having the same problem, repaired 27 year old heads just don't last. . Mark at TR Customs has the stuff you need. Glad you found the issue.

 

[ikle]

Update !!! Yesterday I dropped the oil pan to replace the gasket and I found silver metallic flakes on the bottom of the pan. They are not fine, like what you would find in a rear end, they are about the size of a pin head and are non magnetic so I am assuming they are aluminum. I didn't see them until I was cleaning the pan with brake clean, heck when you look at the oil theres no signs of metal, only when you drain the oil into another container you then see them on the bottom of the pan, so they settle to the bottom. The pick up screen looks like new with no noticeable metal partical on it. Would one suspect the timing chain making contact with the cover ? Or should I look else where ? Thanks, Kyle.

 

[Pronto]

Cam button?

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[Antbankstwo3]

I'm having a ticking sound as well. Sounds like it's coming from the driver side header area. I just had it welded cuz it was cracked. When I installed it again, I drove it a bit & re-torqued it. It did help a lil' bit but the sound was still there. It gets faster & a lil' louder as u rev the engine or drive. Today when I was driving it, I came home & notice that the ticking went away a lot. Still had a faint sound but far better.

Does any of this sound familiar or any suggestions?

 

[earlbrown]

If it's a rollmaster timing chain it can contact the cover and make shavings. There's a goofy flap of metal that makes no sense on the outside of the cam sensor bore. When I build my timing covers I always remove it just in case someone runs a thicker than normal timing set.

If its a stock timing set it might just be a few teeth. Since you said the pickup screen looks new that's kind of a paradox. If you look at the drain bolt area you'll notice the design means that crud and particulates can't drain out with oil changes. With physical debris in the pan, some of it should have made it's way to the pickup screen.

 

[ikle]

If it's a rollmaster timing chain it can contact the cover and make shavings. There's a goofy flap of metal that makes no sense on the outside of the cam sensor bore. When I build my timing covers I always remove it just in case someone runs a thicker than normal timing set.

If its a stock timing set it might just be a few teeth. Since you said the pickup screen looks new that's kind of a paradox. If you look at the drain bolt area you'll notice the design means that crud and particulates can't drain out with oil changes. With physical debris in the pan, some of it should have made it's way to the pickup screen.

Earl the timing chain is a Comp Cam double roller I bought from Cottons about 10 years ago. I would be very surprised if the chain is making the noise, since it seems to be coming from the top towards the rear of the motor, but I have seen stranger things in my life. So I am not ruling it out.

One other thought has come to mind could it be possible that the metal shavings are coming from a piston ? My car has been run lean a few times, 11.6 - 12.8 at the top of third gear, would this be lean enough to cause problems with the pistons ? Thanks for your input, Kyle.

 

[earlbrown]

Pistons generally don't leave shavings, They like to leave chucks. (or a spray if you hole one)


have you cut open an oil filter lately?

 

[ikle]

I'm having a ticking sound as well. Sounds like it's coming from the driver side header area. I just had it welded cuz it was cracked. When I installed it again, I drove it a bit & re-torqued it. It did help a lil' bit but the sound was still there. It gets faster & a lil' louder as u rev the engine or drive. Today when I was driving it, I came home & notice that the ticking went away a lot. Still had a faint sound but far better.

Does any of this sound familiar or any suggestions?

If it is getting better I wouldnt worry about it. My car has a similar noise with aluminum shavings getting into the oil, but my car has never ran as good as it does now. My plan is to drive the car until it runs like crap then pull the motor and have it rebuilt. I am just plain tired of messing with the car going to have fun with her now.

 

[earlbrown]

I will agree with that too. There's not much that's more romantic than destruction testing.

If it was alum dust and just mearly sparkles, running the crap out of it with a quality oil filter might not be a bad idea.

If these shavings are the size of pinheads, that a little bigger than something that glows under a flash. That metal has to come from somewhere and there's not that much non ferrous metal inside the engine. For example, if it's the thrust bearing it's not worth risking a block for a simple bearing job. If the oil pump got a timing tooth chunk in it, and it's eating itself, it's not worth losing everything (including an expensive turbo and coolers) for a weekend fix.

 

[ikle]

I will agree with that too. There's not much that's more romantic than destruction testing.

If it was alum dust and just mearly sparkles, running the crap out of it with a quality oil filter might not be a bad idea.

If these shavings are the size of pinheads, that a little bigger than something that glows under a flash. That metal has to come from somewhere and there's not that much non ferrous metal inside the engine. For example, if it's the thrust bearing it's not worth risking a block for a simple bearing job. If the oil pump got a timing tooth chunk in it, and it's eating itself, it's not worth losing everything (including an expensive turbo and coolers) for a weekend fix.

Earl thanks for your reply ! The aluminum shavings are inconsistant in size, some are smaller than a pinhead and some are larger. I think ill first check the end play of the crank, to do so do I just place a prybar between the timing chain cover and the harmonic balancer ? I believe the factory specs are .003-.011, can you confirm this ? Thanks, Kyle.