This one is new to me. I was at a car show yesterday. A guy and his wife were checking out my T. Anyway he tells her. "They HAD to quit making these because Chevy didn't like the fact that these were faster than the Corvettes so GM made them stop production."
Another myth
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Got me. Can you enlighten me? I've read that there was some heat back then about the GN being faster than the Vette. It was my understanding that had nothing to do with the end of production. My understanding is the body style was out and the smaller front wheel drive cars were in.
Chrisk
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I heard this way back when i first got my tta. Added to the story was the Chevy Corvette is the All American Car and is/was always the fastest American Car.
GNBRETT
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It was killed because the Buick went to front wheel drive.
The FWD is what it was supposedly, but being faster than the vette did make it a candidate for a change,(why not make the corvette fast?!!) the official excuse is legit, but crap all at the same time. GNs made a dent in vette sales, and that is a GM no-no.
1LowLeSabre
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Buicks Magic Eight Ball told them to stop.
turbofish38
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Myth. The nails were being pounded into the Regal(and all the other G-Bodies) coffin way back around 1980-81. Yes that's right. I wish that "nothing can beat the Vette" statement or myth would just go away.For good! For the last time! Plenty of years that the Corvette wasn't king as far as being the fastest car in the GM stables. Why just look at the 77-79 W72 Trans Am. You cant tell me the reason they canned the last real Pontiac Trans Ams was because it beat the 77-78 L82 Corvette? Heck if you even go back to the glory years you'll see plenty of COPO combinations that gave the King Chit L88 a beating in the numbers department. Oh and my favorite. 1980 Monza 305 V-8 vs the 80-81 California Corvette. Yep! Same POS SBC in both cars. Which one was lighter? Which one had a manual tranny? Which one had better gears? Heck just make it a 81 MC with the carb-turbo 3.8 vs the 81 L81 Vette. Torque wins every time in my book. And some of these are Chevy vs Chevy. Prove me wrong. Plenty of books written by real Corvette guys. I have never, ever read where anybody said that. Now I'm sure it was just assumed. Go back to the R.I.P Pontiac threads. The very reason Pontiac was #3 in the 60's was that the gang running the Pontiac division pushed the envelope, crossed that line that made their cars serious contenders for the Vette and every other Chevy built and sold. If that myth was true than I guess Payback Really Is A B1tch! Now there's a conspiracy for you! Piss off the Vette boys and you're history. Not only was the Vette slow but it took Chevy 35 years to kill off Pontiac! Slow! Slow! Slow!
Back to the real reason GM killed the G-Body. It doesn't take a genius to figure it out. Hey just look at me. Even back than GM was looking at the future. The new down sized G-Body was just a stop gap. Not only was GM looking for more fuel efficient cars but more efficient ways to build them. It's no surprise where the lack of quality stigmatism came from. In a ways the G-Body was light years ahead of it's time but yet so archiac. It was kind of hard to build state of the art cars in turn of the century factories. Heck even the Corvette was moved out of St.Louis to Bowling Green for this exact reason. Find some guy that screwed these cars together and than take him on a tour of a newer plant like Lansing or even Pontiac(the newer line. The one that screwed together Turbo Regals shut down for good in 87) and he would be lost. GM was all about profit. As long as the G-Body made money than they would be built. A long story that is impossible for me to write as briefly as possible. Anyway somewhere around 81 the G-Body broke even. It was all downhill after that. Ever wonder why EFI didn't make it on every G-Body? Because GM would have lost money on it. Damn near impossible to sell a $18K MC when $12K got you a Lumina. I hope you see the point.
As far as the Intercooler statement. It almost didn't make it. Another conflict between the engineers and the bean counters. Not only was that option late. But Buick wasn't sure they could get all the tests done in time for the 86 model year. It was planned to be a mid year option. With the Hot Air as the base motor. Pick up a 44W Buick Parts Catalog. You will find parts listed for a 86 Hot Air Regal as proof. Goes back to my profit comment. Buick couldn't have both motors. I guess those Buick engineers burned a lot of midnight oil just so we could have the privledge of driving LC2 Regals. Who ever you are. A pat on the back for a good job done. Someday I'd like to find some real proof to this and other stories. I'd like to write a book about them. Kind of like Grandpa telling war stories.
Back to the real reason GM killed the G-Body. It doesn't take a genius to figure it out. Hey just look at me. Even back than GM was looking at the future. The new down sized G-Body was just a stop gap. Not only was GM looking for more fuel efficient cars but more efficient ways to build them. It's no surprise where the lack of quality stigmatism came from. In a ways the G-Body was light years ahead of it's time but yet so archiac. It was kind of hard to build state of the art cars in turn of the century factories. Heck even the Corvette was moved out of St.Louis to Bowling Green for this exact reason. Find some guy that screwed these cars together and than take him on a tour of a newer plant like Lansing or even Pontiac(the newer line. The one that screwed together Turbo Regals shut down for good in 87) and he would be lost. GM was all about profit. As long as the G-Body made money than they would be built. A long story that is impossible for me to write as briefly as possible. Anyway somewhere around 81 the G-Body broke even. It was all downhill after that. Ever wonder why EFI didn't make it on every G-Body? Because GM would have lost money on it. Damn near impossible to sell a $18K MC when $12K got you a Lumina. I hope you see the point.
As far as the Intercooler statement. It almost didn't make it. Another conflict between the engineers and the bean counters. Not only was that option late. But Buick wasn't sure they could get all the tests done in time for the 86 model year. It was planned to be a mid year option. With the Hot Air as the base motor. Pick up a 44W Buick Parts Catalog. You will find parts listed for a 86 Hot Air Regal as proof. Goes back to my profit comment. Buick couldn't have both motors. I guess those Buick engineers burned a lot of midnight oil just so we could have the privledge of driving LC2 Regals. Who ever you are. A pat on the back for a good job done. Someday I'd like to find some real proof to this and other stories. I'd like to write a book about them. Kind of like Grandpa telling war stories.
Pick up a 44W Buick Parts Catalog. You will find parts listed for a 86 Hot Air Regal as proof. Goes back to my profit comment. Buick couldn't have both motors. I guess those Buick engineers burned a lot of midnight oil just so we could have the privledge of driving LC2 Regals. Who ever you are. A pat on the back for a good job done. Someday I'd like to find some real proof to this and other stories. I'd like to write a book about them. Kind of like Grandpa telling war stories.
Eric,
If you ever write a book about the G-body cars, I will buy at least one copy for myself!!
Dennis Kirban
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kirban 2 cents worth
On a side related note......
With Corvette being a "halo" car for Chevy it was embarassing that a sedan by Buick was quicker....the real payoff is in todays market no 1986-1987 Corvette value even comes close to touching a similar stock original turbo regal in value.
If you recall when AMT or Monogram did the original Grand National plastic model kits they had a tag line on the early boxes that read something to the effect fastest us production car........rumor has it they had to remove that line because of the Corvette camp.....true or not true? who knows I don't.....
In my business I walk a narrow path as we deal in Corvette parts....actually supply Callaway with the 6 speed shifters we had made....Corvette people can be funny to so me of them the sun rises & sets on Corvettes.....its great to have pride in your car but for a brief moment Buick did outshine in performance.
As Eric state above the rear wheel drive platform went by bye and Buick last horray
went out with a bang unlike Olds did in 1999 or 2000.....
kirban
On a side related note......
With Corvette being a "halo" car for Chevy it was embarassing that a sedan by Buick was quicker....the real payoff is in todays market no 1986-1987 Corvette value even comes close to touching a similar stock original turbo regal in value.
If you recall when AMT or Monogram did the original Grand National plastic model kits they had a tag line on the early boxes that read something to the effect fastest us production car........rumor has it they had to remove that line because of the Corvette camp.....true or not true? who knows I don't.....
In my business I walk a narrow path as we deal in Corvette parts....actually supply Callaway with the 6 speed shifters we had made....Corvette people can be funny to so me of them the sun rises & sets on Corvettes.....its great to have pride in your car but for a brief moment Buick did outshine in performance.
As Eric state above the rear wheel drive platform went by bye and Buick last horray
went out with a bang unlike Olds did in 1999 or 2000.....
kirban
novaderrik
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Olds made it to 2004, but no one remembers anything they built after '99 or so.
wasn't the Citation X11 the quickest GM production car at one point?
Dennis Kirban
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kirban 2 cents worth
not sure on citations claim to fame for performance. however concerning those cars if you ever see one that has the high output V6 powerplant look at the script on the hood we used to sell them as it somewhat matches the 3.8 sfi hood emblems on our buicks.....it was kinda neat as it read I think High Output V6....
Not wanting to upset any Olds owners....but they did fade away with a whimper...at least Pontiac can lay claim to a high performance sedan as they take their final curtain call shortly....
kirban......
Know enough to get by.....
not sure on citations claim to fame for performance. however concerning those cars if you ever see one that has the high output V6 powerplant look at the script on the hood we used to sell them as it somewhat matches the 3.8 sfi hood emblems on our buicks.....it was kinda neat as it read I think High Output V6....
Not wanting to upset any Olds owners....but they did fade away with a whimper...at least Pontiac can lay claim to a high performance sedan as they take their final curtain call shortly....
kirban......
Know enough to get by.....
novaderrik
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the Citation X11 also had a fiberglass hood with actual cowl induction that fed the cool air into the amazing for the day 2.8 liter "High Output" V6 with a 5 speed. so you know they were fast.. you know... for 1981..
I don't know anything of the dynamics of GM back in 86-87, but I'm sure that as with any corporation of the size of 'The General' there was a great deal of politics involved. Buick knew they were under the gun and the demise of the GN was already charted. I believe they intended to out-shine everyone, and it showed in the product in 86-87. I also believe that Corvette (the darling of GM) wasn't aware of Buicks intentions with their new intercooled platform. You will never get me to believe that the folks at Corvette would allow Buick to do what they did. Corvette had clout with the executive staff at corporate, and if they knew what the plan was I guarantee you they would not have allowed what happened to have happened. I believe what Buick did was one of the best 'end-run' plays in automotive history. It's unfortunate that folks didn't come forward to tell the real story. Those folks are still around, I just wish there would be documented history on what really happened. That is the politics of corporate America. Just my thoughts.
alwayscode390
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The funny thing is that is what I hear about ALL the neat cars that GM built.
The Syclone/Typhoon ... the TTA ... the GN .... why in the HELL didnt GM just make the Corvette faster? They were always charging enough for it to deliver ---
The Syclone/Typhoon ... the TTA ... the GN .... why in the HELL didnt GM just make the Corvette faster? They were always charging enough for it to deliver ---
Guys, I know this might be hard to grasp, but some people judge automobile performance on more than just quarter mile times.
These people typically drive cars with manual transmissions. I know I know.. crazy!
That said, in "those" people's eyes the 86-87 corvette is significantly faster than any GN.
Since something like a z51 87 vette would likely run laps around a GN on a road course, "those people" would still say the vette was far superior.
Crazy bastards, as if handling ever mattered
These people typically drive cars with manual transmissions. I know I know.. crazy!
That said, in "those" people's eyes the 86-87 corvette is significantly faster than any GN.
Since something like a z51 87 vette would likely run laps around a GN on a road course, "those people" would still say the vette was far superior.
Crazy bastards, as if handling ever mattered
turbofish38
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Remember the "Tag Lines" from both camps in the 80's?
From Dennis Kirban and few other vendors. "We Brake For Corvettes". To tell you the truth I never figured that one out. I never braked for anyone or anything!
From the Corvette camp. "If You Let A GN Beat You Than You Didn't Race Long Enough"
Okay Everybody! There is the Numero Uno reason why The King Corvette is a myth! Corvette wasn't in the least bit worried about the GN. After all there was a dumbazz speed limiter programmed into the chip! If Buick really was serious about rubbing the GN into the nose of the Corvette guys they would have spent another $20.00 and put speed rated tires on the GN! Goes back to my profit comment again! I mean who amongst us,at the time, wouldn't have paid a little extra for the opportunity to kill ourselves in a GN going 150? BTW I never had a problem beating up on those unsuspecting Vette owners with my bone stock GN in Solo2. I think the TR with FE3,skinny tires and weeney brakes and all, handles well enough. My favorite tag line. "It aint the car but the driver"
In 1980 the X-11 was just decals and a spoiler. In 81 it got you 14" wheels and some extra ponies along with the faux cowl induction hood. But in 85 it got you more ponies because the 2.8HO went EFI! My all time favorite FWD X-Body is the 85 X-11. It would be Buick but by 85 their X-Body was the FOUR door only Skylark T-Type. You had to buy the new N-Body Somerset T-Type if you wanted a light weight FWD. Plus it got the 160(vs 150)HP Buick 3.0 V6 with SFI!
From Dennis Kirban and few other vendors. "We Brake For Corvettes". To tell you the truth I never figured that one out. I never braked for anyone or anything!
From the Corvette camp. "If You Let A GN Beat You Than You Didn't Race Long Enough"
Okay Everybody! There is the Numero Uno reason why The King Corvette is a myth! Corvette wasn't in the least bit worried about the GN. After all there was a dumbazz speed limiter programmed into the chip! If Buick really was serious about rubbing the GN into the nose of the Corvette guys they would have spent another $20.00 and put speed rated tires on the GN! Goes back to my profit comment again! I mean who amongst us,at the time, wouldn't have paid a little extra for the opportunity to kill ourselves in a GN going 150?
BTW I never had a problem beating up on those unsuspecting Vette owners with my bone stock GN in Solo2. I think the TR with FE3,skinny tires and weeney brakes and all, handles well enough. My favorite tag line. "It aint the car but the driver" In 1980 the X-11 was just decals and a spoiler. In 81 it got you 14" wheels and some extra ponies along with the faux cowl induction hood. But in 85 it got you more ponies because the 2.8HO went EFI! My all time favorite FWD X-Body is the 85 X-11. It would be Buick but by 85 their X-Body was the FOUR door only Skylark T-Type. You had to buy the new N-Body Somerset T-Type if you wanted a light weight FWD. Plus it got the 160(vs 150)HP Buick 3.0 V6 with SFI!
turbofish38
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You know I'm thinking there is a lot of merit in your comment as I was reading it for a second time. The me, Buicks were always understated. Just as powerfull as a Pontiac or Chevy and just as luxurious as a Cadillac. Quite the Professionals(as in white collar) car. Goes back to the Straight 8 days. Goes back to the Nailhead V-8 days. I don't know about product line up in 86-87 seeing as the Riviera was the Flagship of Buick since 63 up until it's demise in 99. I mean while the Electra and LeSabre were showroom sales hits, the new for 86 Baby Riv was a total flop. And the production figures prove it. Another "what if" debate I guess.
Plenty of Skunk Works Corvettes from that time too. Corvette was well aware of what forced induction and intercooling was capable of. I'll try to dig up some magazine articles. One is a TT 4.3 V-6 Vette. Than there was the V-12 built using SBC internals. That motor was actually devolped by Falconer Engineering and the Corvette was called the SnakeSkinner. One of them used to be in the Corvette Musuem. Than there was at least a couple of pre-ZR1 OHC V-8 conversions and even a BBC or two.:smile:
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