Another rear sway bar thread

[IrvJr]

The guy at SC&C said that you needed new upper a arms or it would not align properly. And as far as I can tell only the lowers cause the ride to to lower, by raising the spindle. Raising the upper a arm should not change ride height.

 

[charlief1]

The guy at SC&C said that you needed new upper a arms or it would not align properly.

If you go back with stock specs, yes, but if you do an alignment more for performance then no. Marcus was trying to sell you something, I can guarantee it.

And as far as I can tell only the lowers cause the ride to to lower, by raising the spindle. Raising the upper a arm should not change ride height.

The lower will change the ride height but not the upper. You can get a 1" taller ball joint which will lower it more but it does give you a raked look to the car. If it sits as close to level then you have a better handiln vehicle because the CG is better centered.

 

[IrvJr]

Ok, but I still don't know where to get the regular bolt in ones. Then where do I get the specs for the more performance oriented alignment?

 

[charlief1]

Did you ever read the sticky at the top of this section about brakes and suspension Irv. It's got a bunch of links which include specs and how to do a DIY alignment.

 

[IrvJr]

I have looked thru them. Mostly for part numbers which I cant seem to get.

 

[charlief1]

Look at the drag car alignment thread Irv. It's got street specs in it that should help you.

 

[nonosv6]

Can I just ask u Charlie, what beef do you have with Marcus ? I've talked to Marcus numerous times and he has always been helpful informative and never tried to sell me anything. If he has the time he will talk your ear off. Everytime I talk to him it's at least an hour conversation and he always makes sure my questions are answered and that I understand. I have purchased things from him but was never pressured into anything. Of course he is going to tell you about the products he sells and why he sells them. He owns a business and provides a service. What is the problem? I just can't stand when people bad mouth other people so I'm just asking why? I'm not being a dick just asking a question. If there is some legit reasons please let me know. I just need to state that my experiences with him have always been good.


Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

 

[charlief1]

I've delt with a lot of so called "experts" over the years and several of them have written books. In all of the cases you can tell a difference between someone that is a practicing engineer and one that may understand the principles but couldn't make anything that would work. My father was a civil engineer and designed several of the dams that were built in the northeast in the 80's and 70's for the SCS. He'd take us to the sites once in a while to see how things were made and watch as he'd go over things with the men in charge. Every now and then his boss would be there and you could tell the difference. Dad spoke plainly to the boss and explained what was going on and why, and the "boss" was an engineer as well.

Marcus makes nothing himself but markets others products. He knows his parts and knows how to sell them, but if he walked into my shop and asked me to do something I doubt he would seriously be able to explain what he wanted. A good instance is those adjustable upper arms he sells. They do provide for a lot of adjustment but the strength factor is a major issue. They're intended for off road use only, and on a road course, not the street. While you may be able to use them on the street they flex and can bend when put under normal street conditions. There are better ways to accomplish the adjustments with lighter and stronger parts.

Just in case you're wondering, I've got an degree in Automotive service technology from Texas A&M, and before I move back to Texas, I had 28 hours left on a double major in mechanical engineering and education. Just ran out of money and time.

 

[charlief1]

Friggin double posts.

 

[IrvJr]

I did not talk to Marcus, he was out. But I left my number and haven't gotten a call back yet. But the other guy mentioned that the taller upper ball joint will sit at almost th limit of its motion at rest and a big bump could cause damage. Any truth to this?

 

[charlief1]

LOL Not exactly correct Irv. If that was the case then there would be a bunch of cars that broke the upper joint in the 80's with the low rider crowd. Remember all those knuckleheads that would drop them down to the ground and put tiny tires on anything they drove? Those geniuses would even take the bump stops out and heat the springs to get the lowest ride they could, and that was way beyond stock limits of the factory design.

 

[IrvJr]

I didn't think that 3/4" would throw that big of a wrench in that angle

 

[IrvJr]

One thing I don't like is reaming out the lower spindle mounting holes.

 

[charlief1]

If you go with the after market ones rather than the truck ones then you don't need to Irv. Only if you use the truck ones will you need to ream the hole out in the knuckle.

 

[IrvJr]

Ok. Now if I could find the part numbers or someone that sells them im golden. Thanks

 

[nonosv6]

Which ones are you looking for? I have a speedway catalog and I can post the part#s. Are you looking for uppers and lowers?


Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

 

[IrvJr]

I called speedway they just have the Howe rebuildables and were one of the ones that said I needed upper a arms replaced.

 

[nonosv6]

I have the catalog in front of me now. Howe might be the only rebuildable ones and they are 2x or more than the other non rebuildable ones. I would call afco and qa1 and Howe with questions and get the part #s from them and then look to see who has them available and if they recommend adjustable arms or whatnot.


Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

 

[nonosv6]

For the record I have spc upper and lower control arms with the Howe upper and lower 1/2" taller ball joints. I have no complaints other than I had the weld in the lower ball joint because the spc lowers come with moog ball joints already in them. Problem is that the moog ball joints are replacement units which are specd a little bigger than stock to make up for wear and tear of the whole in the stock control arms over time. Now the Howe precision balljoints are machined to the stock dimensions so when I pushed the moogs out they left the hole slightly larger than the new Howe ball joint. Since they are rebuildable and after some research found it to be a common issue and the solution is to just weld them in. Problem solved !
Other then that they are great control arms. The bottoms ones are beefy and have Delrin bushings and a dropped spring pocket that will drop a car with a stock spring. They sell a modular set up with shims and a coil spring spacer that allows height adjustment. They also center the tire more in the wheel well and help prevent tire rubbing the rear inner fender well by the frame. And no more shimming the cross shafts. The adjustable uppers are great. Several people have them on this board and I don't recall and complaints. I have read on pro touring site where a couple people have installed them incorrectly like upside down or something and have cracked one of the plates that hold the bj but it was pointed out and the owner fixed it and didn't have any further problems. I like to go with facts on products and not just speculation. I try and do as much research as possible before buying something like that and don't base my final outcome on one opinion for a lot of reasons.



Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

 

[charlief1]

I have read on pro touring site where a couple people have installed them incorrectly like upside down or something and have cracked one of the plates that hold the bj but it was pointed out and the owner fixed it and didn't have any further problems. I like to go with facts on products and not just speculation. I try and do as much research as possible before buying something like that and don't base my final outcome on one opinion for a lot of reasons.

There are several threads on protouring.com where and individual was using the adjustable arms and they bent under normal driving conditions. When Marcus and SPC were contacted about getting the arms swapped out they refused. One of them was an early 70's A body and it took quite a bit of complaining to get them to warranty the arms. Pics and copies of the emails were included in the threads showing where they bent behind the adjuster nut on the shaft. The arms are modeled after the ones used in modified dirt and circle track cars but the racing cars weigh much less than the street cars and there isn't a design change to compensate for that.