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Any good hyd roller lifters other than clicky Comps?

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TIMINATOR said:
To a past post, Comp Cams roller cams typically have a faster ramp rate than most other cams. Thats why they tend to be noisier, especially with roller rockers, AND make more horsepower. My custom Buick roller cam had 14 different available lifts and ramp rates available for the same duration at .050! Choose your noise, valvetrain durability (street, drag, boat, etc.), and lift with relation to head flow and intended power. If you are not well enough informed to make a good catalogue or custom selection, the guys manning their Cam Help line will aid you.
Like "crate motors" in relation to custom builts, off the shelf cams are someone else's idea of what you need. Comp also sells other lifters than what is catalogued, they will help with that selection also.
Find someone with a cam analyzer and check a few different brands of "identical" cams, you will be amazed at the "area under the curve" differences.
Some smaller companies that still grind cams from old master lobe specimens that only have old, less aggressive patterns, spec their cams with less advertised durations and lift than they actually are, so they will make similar HP to modern cams.
Problems there include:
Less bottom end torque than you expect
Poorer idle quality
Slower spool up time
And often higher actual lift than advertised! That will bite YOU in the butt if your shop sets up your heads to what the cam card says! I was almost sued over that once! I had the customer cool off enough to bring in his cam to analyze first. His 276@.050 .738 lift cam actually speced as: 284@.050 and .780 lift (BBChevy race cam)
The cam companies defense, the owner said his catalogue stated: YOU MUST USE OUR COMPLETE CAM KIT WITH OUR CAMS!
The customer had me check his existing springs and set them up to the cam card specs. I don't do that any more! Bring me your cam and card!
TIMINATOR
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I don't remember seeing any mention of making the passenger oil galley crossover larger in what I have read. Ya all might check into that!
TIMINATOR
 
TIMINATOR said:
I don't remember seeing any mention of making the passenger oil galley crossover larger in what I have read. Ya all might check into that!
TIMINATOR
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Mr. Spool, you are obviously on your game! BRAVO!
It's a wise man that knows his limitations." Clint Eastwood.
In our deal, it's knowing the requirements and limitations of what we are working WITH!
TIMINATOR
 
TIMINATOR said:
Has anyone that is having lifter noise problems opened up the crossover passage to the passenger side lifter galley?
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The main oil galley on a Buick IS on the passengers (right) side, the crossover is around the front cam bearing to the drivers (left) side, thats all that oil galley serves, the drivers side lifters.
 
You can also loop the rear oil gallery plugs with small tubing to help feed the drivers side.
 
TIMINATOR said:
Now that you mention it, I have heard of that! A good idea!
TIMINATOR
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Latest from comp: 6853-12 are the lifters for the turbo buicks. Shrouded wheel, slow bleed down, normal travel, for nonadjustanle valvetrains. S was the new suffix 6 or so years ago when Shaver took over production. After a while, the S was dropped, and Shaver is still the supplier.
TIMINATOR
 
TIMINATOR said:
Latest from comp: 6853-12 are the lifters for the turbo buicks. Shrouded wheel, slow bleed down, normal travel, for nonadjustanle valvetrains. S was the new suffix 6 or so years ago when Shaver took over production. After a while, the S was dropped, and Shaver is still the supplier.
TIMINATOR
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Ur correct, I have been looking at my block upside down on the stand for too long!
Also the Durabond high perf cam bearings (B-12B) somewhat addresses the drivers side lifter oiling issues by cutting the back side of the front cam bearing with a .200" wide and a.030" deep groove to improve the oiling to the drivers side lifter galley. It almost doubles the oil flow to the drivers side lifter galley. Also, the front bearing feed hole is a bit big at .270" which helps keep oil on the narrow front bearing. The other three holes measure .180". All are larger than BBChevy oil holes (.120"). But then again the BBC bearings are about a third wider, which makes them easier to keep oil on, and have more area too. I recommend the B-12B cam bearings in all builds to help keep the lifters oiled, reducing the noise and possibly increasing HP, depending on spring loads and ramp rates.
You don't need to worry about too much oil to the lifters, as that is dependent on the lifter to bore clearance, and the lifter metering itself.
TIMINATOR
 
Theres a whole catalog full of lobe profiles for a comp cam. Saying all Comps lobes are aggressive vs. other cams is not accurate.
 
Trying to understand, if the oiling mods are done during the engine build, will this prevent the comp cams noise issue?
The comp cams lifters are not the noise problem, its the oiling of the V6 Buick engine?
 
N2BUICK said:
Trying to understand, if the oiling mods are done during the engine build, will this prevent the comp cams noise issue?
The comp cams lifters are not the noise problem, its the oiling of the V6 Buick engine?
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OK. According to my cam analyzer, and what comes thru my shop, Comps have typically faster ramp rates. True, they have endurance (like boat and milder street grinds) that aren't as fast as other designs that they have, but my customers are HP gluttons, so that's what we tend to see. My Turbo buick roller has only 2 degrees more duration at .050, but has 12 more degrees at .200!
Noisier? Yup. Do I care? Nope.
N2buick: in my opinion, both.
We modify the oiling system in EVERY engine we build! We only build HP engines.
We have extensive experience with Hydraulic roller cams dating back to when Crane released their first ones in 1986 or 7, using Eaton lifters, as I remember.....
We also build Harley motors, they use SBChevy lifters, and we can change a set pretty quickly, as the bosses and pushrods are external, and we also use quick adjustable pushrods for testing purposes. We have tried many brands, leakdown rates, oiling mods, and HI Volume pumps in our learning endevours. Incidentally, Comp grinds the Harley branded Screaming Eagle cams. There are only two other HD cam suppliers we have found that grinds their cams with similar ramp rates. All three are noisier than the others.
I only offer my experiences to help others in their quest for HP, not to argue nor offend. My Grandpa said: Knowledge is the only thing you can give away and still retain have all of it. He probably stole that quote from somebody else! I am semi retired and don't need to do anything that I don't want. Feel free to ignore any posts you disagree with.
TIMINATOR
 
TIMINATOR said:
OK. According to my cam analyzer, and what comes thru my shop, Comps have typically faster ramp rates. True, they have endurance (like boat and milder street grinds) that aren't as fast as other designs that they have, but my customers are HP gluttons, so that's what we tend to see. My Turbo buick roller has only 2 degrees more duration at .050, but has 12 more degrees at .200!
Noisier? Yup. Do I care? Nope.
N2buick: in my opinion, both.
We modify the oiling system in EVERY engine we build! We only build HP engines.
We have extensive experience with Hydraulic roller cams dating back to when Crane released their first ones in 1986 or 7, using Eaton lifters, as I remember.....
We also build Harley motors, they use SBChevy lifters, and we can change a set pretty quickly, as the bosses and pushrods are external, and we also use quick adjustable pushrods for testing purposes. We have tried many brands, leakdown rates, oiling mods, and HI Volume pumps in our learning endevours. Incidentally, Comp grinds the Harley branded Screaming Eagle cams. There are only two other HD cam suppliers we have found that grinds their cams with similar ramp rates. All three are noisier than the others.
I only offer my experiences to help others in their quest for HP, not to argue nor offend. My Grandpa said: Knowledge is the only thing you can give away and still retain have all of it. He probably stole that quote from somebody else! I am semi retired and don't need to do anything that I don't want. Feel free to ignore any posts you disagree with.
TIMINATOR
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ERROR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
B-13!
Sorry, I was working on an old 231!
1975 to 85 takes the B-12 cam bearings by Durabond.
1986 up takes the B-13.
Also, the Comp Beehive Hydraulic roller springs set up at 1.800" installed height, and at that they are 125# on the seat. That number is in the Comp Cams catalogue. The only problem is that stock iron heads set up at 1.700" installed height and that nets about 175+ pounds on the seat! Way too much for a street roller cam. 1.800" is what many aftermarket heads set up as installed height. Moral of the story: never assume anything! Measure the installed height, and double check the pressure!
TIMINATOR
 
I also use a die grinder with a 1/4" ball end to make the lifter feed passage deeper/ wider to feed the drivers side lifters better. But you really need to do oiling mods to the front cover, pump, pump cover, and block to make sure there is enough oil to the entire engine. We also weld the filter adaptor where it intersects the pump at that nasty angle and make a better transition there, it's a big restriction! We do these mods and don't have noisy lifters. We also run deeper lifter preload, or travel limited lifters to limit the amount of collapse and lift loss when under RPM and boost, especially on the exhaust side. Lifter noise is often caused by lack of oil pressure to the lifters, not the lifters themselves.
TIMINATOR
 
TIMINATOR said:
ERROR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
B-13!
Sorry, I was working on an old 231!
1975 to 85 takes the B-12 cam bearings by Durabond.
1986 up takes the B-13.
Also, the Comp Beehive Hydraulic roller springs set up at 1.800" installed height, and at that they are 125# on the seat. That number is in the Comp Cams catalogue. The only problem is that stock iron heads set up at 1.700" installed height and that nets about 175+ pounds on the seat! Way too much for a street roller cam. 1.800" is what many aftermarket heads set up as installed height. Moral of the story: never assume anything! Measure the installed height, and double check the pressure!
TIMINATOR
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We have seen 0 issues running 175+ on street roller cams on iron heads.
 
As I stated before, there are VERY FEW companies that actually MAKE the lifters that they sell, the rest is advertising.
TIMINATOR
 
josephmacky said:
Yes, there are several good hydraulic roller lifters available on the market that you can consider apart from the Comps. Here are a few options:
  1. Crane Cams: Crane Cams offers a range of hydraulic roller lifters that are known for their durability and performance. Their lifters feature a precision-ground crown that provides a stable base for the roller wheel and a hardened steel axle for increased durability.
  2. Howards Cams: Howards Cams offers a variety of hydraulic roller lifters that are designed for high performance and racing applications. Their lifters feature a precision-machined body and a heat-treated roller wheel for improved performance and durability.
  3. Lunati: Lunati offers a range of hydraulic roller lifters that are designed for high performance and racing applications. Their lifters feature a precision-machined body and a hardened steel roller for increased durability.
  4. Jesel: Jesel is known for their high-quality valvetrain components, including hydraulic roller lifters. Their lifters feature a precision-machined body and a proprietary roller design that provides improved performance and durability.
When choosing hydraulic roller lifters, it's important to consider the specific requirements of your engine and the intended use of the vehicle. Be sure to choose lifters that are compatible with your camshaft and valve springs, and consult with a professional engine builder or performance shop if you have any questions or concerns.
Click to expand...
bot?
 
When I wrote for HOT BOAT Magazine years ago, I learned the easiest way to separate the manufacturers from the reboxers was a quick phone call: " I am doing an article on engine performance parts manufacturers, and will be in your city next week, I am hoping to tour your manufacturing facility at that time, can we set up an appointment? It will mean free exposure for your company! I am also authorized to offer you an introductory ad rate, and we can print your ad near the article if you like."
I got a LOT of,"our facilities are scattered around the country, and not all are located here."
That told me all I needed to know....
Owning cam analyzers for over 30 years has been an eye opening experience for me also. I spec'ed every cam that came thru here for most of that time, and found that many cams from different companies spec'ed the same, but were advertised with slightly different numbers to hide the fact that they were simply reboxed, generic mass produced cams.
Lifter manufacturing requires a much more complex, demanding, precision
set of operations than cam grinding does. That's why there are fewer actual lifter manufacturers, and many more "reboxers."
Many of the west coast cam companies bought used grinders from large quantity, stock engine remanufactures, and used, master lobes from a few of the larger performance cam companies, after the masters were worn and no longer ground to the specs as intended.
Those cams aren't great, but they are bigger than stock, give a power increase, and are cheap.
One of the larger companies didn't sell their worn or "purchased used" masters, but every 3 or 4 years they analyzed what actually was being ground, and changed their catalogue to match it! They advertised that their cams were extremely precision manufactured, and were closer to specs than other cam companies offerings!
Comp Cams bought the new expensive computerized CNC cam grinders when they became available, and didn't use masters. That also gave them the latitude to develop new lobes and run them on a dyno to see what worked best without having to make an expensive master first.
More info than asked for, but good info none the less, and useful to serious builders, and insomniacs!
Knowlege is power! AND helps you make more power!
Random thoughts and info from:
TIMINATOR
 
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