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I have stock headers but I had them ceramic coated (probably a waste of money). I honestly don't want to do any fabricating or anything complicated, I just want to pay for it and bolt it on. Yeah I have an external downpipe. I need to google V-bands, I have no clue what that is. By the way is that a dogo argentine in your avatar? that's a pretty rare and badass dog. I plan on getting one and a boerboel after I stop traveling so much for work.

The ceramic coat is not a waste of money! Most people here will tell you it is, but it's worth it. Will keep the temp under the hood down. Should do the DP, too. Also, I'm real big an appearance, so if nothing else, then at least they'll look good. Even though they're SS they still turn a brownish color. Looks like dog ass.... If I spend a shit load of money on parts I want the final product to look good. Here's a couple pictures of mine. Will do the DP once I get all the plumbing done. With just about every type of application you'll have to do a little bit of fabrication. That's normal with just about all performance parts. If you were to ask any of the vendors here they all tell you that. It's just part of the making these cars faster. The V-band technology is just a way to attach exhaust parts. Easy, clean and no leaks. I forget what his name is on this board, but he has a saying that's totally true. "Pick two: Good, Fast, or Cheap. If it's fast and good it aint gonna be cheap. If it's fast and cheap it aint gonna be good. So on and so forth..... Yes, he's a Dogo Argintino. Great dogs. Fierce beyond belief. Yes, they are rare, expensive, too. A good friend of mine had a South African Boerboel. Neat dogs... They're just so damn big. Looked like a bear... You'll have to get a part time job just to feed him.
 
I have stock headers but I had them ceramic coated (probably a waste of money). I honestly don't want to do any fabricating or anything complicated, I just want to pay for it and bolt it on. Yeah I have an external downpipe. I need to google V-bands, I have no clue what that is. By the way is that a dogo argentine in your avatar? that's a pretty rare and badass dog. I plan on getting one and a boerboel after I stop traveling so much for work.

I forgot to include some pictures.
 

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I forgot to include some pictures.

I agree with you one hundred percent!!!

I had my headers done twice. The first time by Jet-Hot. The finish was beautiful. They looked just like yours. Paid good money for it and I got what I paid for. I never knew if it made much of a difference a with temperature.

After a while the finished dulled but it still didn't peel or flake. So I had them done again about 5 years later.

The second time I saved some money and went to someone else. I then discovered the difference! Even though the application was good, the finish was a flat grayish silver. And my wire loom started to soften and melt. I also noticed my face hurt from the heat when I opened the hood on a summer day! Also, I kept burning up my Casper's volt-booster. I replaced 3 of them!

Next time, I will use Jet-Hot again. It very much makes a difference!
 
I agree with you one hundred percent!!!

I had my headers done twice. The first time by Jet-Hot. The finish was beautiful. They looked just like yours. Paid good money for it and I got what I paid for. I never knew if it made much of a difference a with temperature.

After a while the finished dulled but it still didn't peel or flake. So I had them done again about 5 years later.

The second time I saved some money and went to someone else. I then discovered the difference! Even though the application was good, the finish was a flat grayish silver. And my wire loom started to soften and melt. I also noticed my face hurt from the heat when I opened the hood on a summer day! Also, I kept burning up my Casper's volt-booster. I replaced 3 of them!

Next time, I will use Jet-Hot again. It very much makes a difference!

Amen.... Finally.... You have a beautiful motor I know you don't want it lookin all crusty! These guys can laugh at me all they want. It's cool, I got thick skin... I don't want my shit just fast, I want it to look good too..... It's not a garage queen for nothing.... It aint a lawn mower motor! I spent a shit load of money on my long block I want it lookin pretty!
 
Yeah Bison and I have a conversation going on right now, the GT35R is what we are looking at, im just hoping its a 3 bolt. When you say 6262 which brand is that? Im assuming that the naming convention is based on the inducer and exducer side, example 62 mm inducer and 62mm inducter hence 6262 and the same thing if it was a 6265. Is there a rule of thumb regarding the diameter like the smaller the inducer size the faster the turbo spools or something like that?

Garrett's a great turbo. You won't be disappointed and you have possibly the best person in the country advising you. They can take a lot of abuse and keep coming back. Same with the Borg Werner's. I've spoken to a lot of people who use Garrett turbos (which is why I went with a Garrett) and they won't use anything else. Is that a t3 or a t4 flange? Either way I would still put a set of 4bolt headers on it; needed or not. Makes things easier for the future. I wasted a bunch of $$$ last year for not listening. I was a dumb ass and bought a set of TA SS 3bolt headers when I knew I was eventually going to upgrade and build another motor. It just happened a little sooner then I thought. But I'm still an idiot for doing it. Well the good news is somebody got a great deal on a set of TA headers.... Good luck.
 
Garrett's a great turbo. You won't be disappointed and you have possibly the best person in the country advising you. They can take a lot of abuse and keep coming back. Same with the Borg Werner's. I've spoken to a lot of people who use Garrett turbos (which is why I went with a Garrett) and they won't use anything else. Is that a t3 or a t4 flange? Either way I would still put a set of 4bolt headers on it; needed or not. Makes things easier for the future. I wasted a bunch of $$$ last year for not listening. I was a dumb ass and bought a set of TA SS 3bolt headers when I knew I was eventually going to upgrade and build another motor. It just happened a little sooner then I thought. But I'm still an idiot for doing it. Well the good news is somebody got a great deal on a set of TA headers.... Good luck.


Not trying to start a pissin match... but FYI .... If its 304 stainless that typically comes from overseas ... I wouldn't thermo coat it.. your asking for issues.
Especially on headers...
 
What are the issues I should look out for? I've never heard nor read about any, yet know a lot of people with performance and show cars that use it. Appreciate the heads up.
 
What are the issues I should look out for? I've never heard nor read about any, yet know a lot of people with performance and show cars that use it. Appreciate the heads up.

Thermo induced cracking... the heat you are not emitting ... you are keeping in the pipe itself ... on higher grade stainless not a problem that's why you goto a higher grade to begin with...
304 isn't known to be that great at thermo cycling and will crack. The more heat contained within the pipe it self the more Stainless will "MOVE" from expansion.

Perfect example is when guys thermo wrap Mild steel headers... the headers will actually crumble with the higher temps contained within the piping.

On a downpipe .. not that big a deal as it wont get nearly as hot as the headers will.. but I wouldn't coat stainless headers
 
What are the issues I should look out for? I've never heard nor read about any, yet know a lot of people with performance and show cars that use it. Appreciate the heads up.

I see where this is going. When it has to look good, that's it! I don't care about what if, he said, she said, the steel will melt, the stuff will come off, or anything else!

I've got 32,o00 dollars under my hood. For God's sake! It better look like 32,000 dollars! Besides, the shit works! And as far as I'm concerned if a magnet don't stick to it and it's steel........then it's STAINLESS STEEL. The details don't matter to me then they shouldn't matter to anyone else.


Don't believe me? Take a look!
Joeys car pics 005.jpg
Joeys car pics 016.jpg
Joeys car pics 012.jpg
Joeys car pics 004.jpg
 
These pictures were taken after 6 years of nice weather street use. Those that know me know I drive my car.
 
I see where this is going. When it has to look good, that's it! I don't care about what if, he said, she said, the steel will melt, the stuff will come off, or anything else!

I've got 32,o00 dollars under my hood. For God's sake! It better look like 32,000 dollars! Besides, the shit works! And as far as I'm concerned if a magnet don't stick to it and it's steel........then it's STAINLESS STEEL. The details don't matter to me then they shouldn't matter to anyone else.


Don't believe me? Take a look!View attachment 250137 View attachment 250139 View attachment 250138 View attachment 250142


Like I said I didn't want to get into a pissin match.. you spent 32K so obviously you need to justify that ... all I was trying to do is bring up the point it can cause issues.. why do I bring that up... cause ive seen it OVER AND OVER ! ... but to each his own .. if your happy with it . .GREAT !!!
 
I just don't want to discourage anyone from using ceramic coating. It works to keep things beautiful and hold some heat back. We all have tons of money in our engine compartments. Probably you too. It sucks when we go to event's and look like the slobs of the Hot-Rod world! While these stupid 280HP cookie cutter GM replacement small blocks ordered from Summit look so good. I'm a Buick snob! I wish everyone of us could be proud of the way he spends tons of money under his hood. You too. No one walks past my car without wanting to know more about Turbo Buicks. And that's good for all of us.

Besides, my headers still haven't melted:D
 
Like I said I didn't want to get into a pissin match.. you spent 32K so obviously you need to justify that ... all I was trying to do is bring up the point it can cause issues.. why do I bring that up... cause ive seen it OVER AND OVER ! ... but to each his own .. if your happy with it . .GREAT !!!

I'm not an expert in metallurgy so should trow these headers out and have billet ones made? I realize that it's your opinion (ceramic coat) and I completely respect and appreciate it! That's what's great about this country! NY Twin Turbo makes an excellent point (or at least I think so) about keeping the conversation alive (wanting to know more about turbo Buicks). I'm not real big on nostalgia, but I love my car and appreciate others who share that same quality. (an attention to detail) In fact, message boards like this with regards to both aspects (knowledge and history) keeps the conversation going. Appreciate your opinion.
 

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You guys are over completing things. Heat is energy, the more heat contained in the exhaust pipe the more energy transfered to the turbine. Wrap your exhaust pipes. Keep it simple, heat is energy!
 
You guys are over completing things. Heat is energy, the more heat contained in the exhaust pipe the more energy transfered to the turbine. Wrap your exhaust pipes. Keep it simple, heat is energy!

You have alot to learn my friend.. Wrapping a header is the worst thing you can do for the header... Been proven for a long time... Talk to people in the know and you will change your tune!!
 
Thermo induced cracking... the heat you are not emitting ... you are keeping in the pipe itself ... on higher grade stainless not a problem that's why you goto a higher grade to begin with...
304 isn't known to be that great at thermo cycling and will crack. The more heat contained within the pipe it self the more Stainless will "MOVE" from expansion.

Perfect example is when guys thermo wrap Mild steel headers... the headers will actually crumble with the higher temps contained within the piping.

On a downpipe .. not that big a deal as it wont get nearly as hot as the headers will.. but I wouldn't coat stainless headers

You are 100% right when it comes to properties of steels and how they react to heat. As someone has been into cars for over thirty years and a welder at a nuclear site where 95% of the metal used is 308 stainless for integrity purposes I have seen various issues with various types of steels from cold rolled carbon to the aforementioned 308 varieties.

I'm also a CWI [certified weld inspector] and have some knowledge of metallurgy and the effects of heat/cold and tensile strengths amongst other properties and effects of many different types of metals.

Without getting into all the scientific mumbo jumbo of different metal grades and the properties I will only say this: every heat cycle you put in your exhaust brings it closer to the failure point.

How fast this happens depends on how much heat is put into the metal, how fast it is cooled and also how much vibration is present at the various heat levels. Typically the failure point will be at or next to the welds because the metal is harder/more brittle from the heat of the welding process.

The hotter you get the system and the more often you do it will dictate the failure rate as well as the type of base metal used and the design of the components. For instance, Joe may have a set of one off headers and be made of 304L SS and you have a set of mass produced 308L SS headers, but Joes has a better weld quality and less stress because of a well thought out design for his particular application.

He may also run his exhaust 3/500* cooler than you [just an example] so therefore even though his headers are made from a less desirable material they should last longer because of the design and environment they are used in.

The hotter you get the metal and the quicker it cools down [drag racing] will have a bigger detrimental effect than say just a couple grades difference in the metal being used and the occasional 1/4 mile blast and still being driven so the temps come down slower [tempering] VS. fast cool down which would be considered quenching.

The header wrap on steel headers is a bad example because it destroys the mild steel by trapping moisture and corroding the steel [rust] which only accelerates the natural process of what happens with mild steel headers.
 
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You are 100% right when it comes to properties of steels and how they react to heat. As someone has been into cars for over thirty years and a welder at a nuclear site where 95% of the metal used is 308 stainless for integrity purposes I have seen various issues with various types of steels from cold rolled carbon to the aforementioned 308 varieties.

I'm also a CWI [certified weld inspector] and have some knowledge of metallurgy and the effects of heat/cold and tensile strengths amongst other properties and effects of many different types of metals.

Without getting into all the scientific mumbo jumbo of different metal grades and the properties I will only say this: every heat cycle you put in your exhaust brings it closer to the failure point.

How fast this happens depends on how much heat is put into the metal, how fast it is cooled and also how much vibration is present at the various heat levels. Typically the failure point will be at or next to the welds because the metal is harder/more brittle from the heat of the welding process.

The hotter you get the system and the more often you do it will dictate the failure rate as well as the type of base metal used and the design of the components. For instance, Joe may have a set of one off headers and be made of 304L SS and you have a set of mass produced 308L SS headers, but Joes has a better weld quality and less stress because of a well thought out design for his particular application.

He may also run his exhaust 3/500* cooler than you [just an example] so therefore even though his headers are made from a less desirable material they should last longer because of the design and environment they are you used.

The hotter you get the metal and the quicker it cools down [drag racing] will have a bigger detrimental effect than say just a couple grades difference in the metal being used and the occasional 1/4 mile blast and still being driven so the temps come down slower [tempering] VS. fast cool down which would be considered quenching.

The header wrap on steel headers is a bad example because it destroys the mild steel by trapping moisture and corroding the steel [rust] which only accelerates the natural process of what happens with mild steel headers.

Alot of misinformation here as well.. Who fabricates headers out of 308?? You mean 304 .. Typically 308 is the rod you would use as filler on a 304 tube... Not the pipe itself.. But im sure you know that being a certified nuclear weld inspector.. Further for the headers one may opt to spend the money on a 321 grade on the tube and use 347 filler to ensure he gets a "premium" finished product that will last and look great alleviating the need for a wrap or coating... In short put the money in the construct and material up front.. Thats where the benefit is
 
Alot of misinformation here as well.. Who fabricates headers out of 308?? You mean 304 .. Typically 308 is the rod you would use as filler on a 304 tube... Not the pipe itself.. But im sure you know that being a certified nuclear weld inspector.. Further for the headers one may opt to spend the money on a 321 grade on the tube and use 347 filler to ensure he gets a "premium" finished product that will last and look great alleviating the need for a wrap or coating... In short put the money in the construct and material up front.. Thats where the benefit is

I'm sorry about the typo, most if not all production headers made in stainless are 304 or of a cheaper grade.I used the different grades for comparison purposes.

As far as the rest of your statements, have at it if you want, I wasn't starting a pisah contest, just trying to clarify some points on the hows and whys of the problems we encounter with headers and the reasons they crack.

As far as the coating goes that you hate so much, a quality one will have a positive impact on under hood temps as well as quicker spool regardless of how negligible it may or not be depends on the application and performance level of the engine it's on and the quality of the coating/s.
 
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You have alot to learn my friend.. Wrapping a header is the worst thing you can do for the header... Been proven for a long time... Talk to people in the know and you will change your tune!!
Hate to break it to you man but if you disagree with that statement you have been doing it wrong for way too long. Search the Nasioc forum for some hard proven data on why wrapping your header is a good idea then come talk to me.
 
Hate to break it to you man but if you disagree with that statement you have been doing it wrong for way too long. Search the Nasioc forum for some hard proven data on why wrapping your header is a good idea then come talk to me.

And thats the difference between me and you.. You get your data from the search function.. I get mine from seeing and living this for decades.. Go ahead wrap your own headers .. But dont advocate others to do it.. Because its a great way to ruin headers that normally could live..

Im out.. This thread is way off topic now .. Sorry to the OP .. If someone else starts another thread we can pick up the discussion.. Maybe we can get beyond all the internet promoted crap and get to real use cases.
 
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