Anyone running propane injection?

[import power on]

I was running the Aquamist ERL 1s system and the propane blows it out of the water (pun not intended) I ran 50/50 water alky and was not impressed. With propane i saw no change in performance with water added and actually it slowed me down. Give me high octane fuel, not cooling water...Guess others may see different results, but that is what we have found.

 

[Turbo__Tim]

Yes RK very disturbing. I wonder what she was hiding!

OK I am going to combine the propane with my SMC kit. I converted the SMC today to a 2 stage system today. I went with aquamist nozzles.

Using 2 nozzles (1 MM?) one comes on at 5 psi, the other at 15 psi. Due to the better atomization, I am running a 50-50 de-natured water mixture. Early results are promising. I can turn the pump speed all the way up, and am using exactly half the fliud as before when I used 100 percent de-natured.

(Thank you Steve Hill for stressing how important it is to vaporize the mix..)

I'm going to switch to a 70-30 mix when I add the propane. As important it is to cool the intake charge, I believe that some percentage of water is needed to carry the heat out of the combustion chamber after ignition. I like the idea of redundancy if one system fails as well.

Anyway I'm betting this combination will work just fine.

I'll keep you all posted.

 

[import power on]

Here are pics of the complete setup

 

[Spoolinup]

Import, how is your kit performing on a Buick?
(boost psi on pump gas, ect)

Do you have any chips that you are going to be able to offer with your kit?

As you know, the Buicks do not use s-afc's and do not have fuel cut issues so the chips become an important part of tuning the fuel curves that the propane will throw off in our chips.

I know Jay will be able to offer chips with his propane kit, so it will be a one stop shop with him.

 

[import power on]

Sorry, no chips.

 

[import power on]

Hooked to tank, reg adjusted to 70psi

 

[ekool]

Originally posted by import power on
Hooked to tank, reg adjusted to 70psi

Is the regulator working on a 1:1 basis?

When someone is pushing 26 pounds of boost, does your regulator now only output 44psi?

 

[import power on]

Regulator is adjustable to 100psi. Along with PSI adjustment there is also flow adjustment. So at 70PSI you can set it for low flow (barely comming out) all the way to blasting out so hard it actually hurts your hand if you place it in front of the outlet.

 

[ekool]

Originally posted by import power on
Regulator is adjustable to 100psi. Along with PSI adjustment there is also flow adjustment. So at 70PSI you can set it for low flow (barely comming out) all the way to blasting out so hard it actually hurts your hand if you place it in front of the outlet.

So I take that as a "no" ?

 

[import power on]

Originally posted by ekool


So I take that as a "no" ?

Correct, only 44psi would incorrect. If you set it at 100psi and you boost to 26psi then the net psi would be 74psi, not accounting for the FLOW adjust of course.

Boosting at 20+psi on our car I can adjust flow to about 15-20% and over that start to bog down from over richness. getting O2 to 1.0 and higher

I do run a little rich for safety though, around 96 O2

I know, more power leaning out a bit....We want to keep the engine so we keep it higher. I call it insurance others call it foolish...

 

[turbowrenchhead]

So what is a good line pressure to start at if your running 20 pds of boost?

 

[ekool]

Originally posted by turbowrenchhead
So what is a good line pressure to start at if your running 20 pds of boost?

DR recommends ~170 psi, and I think Jay's kit is in the 200psi range.

 

[import power on]

Originally posted by ekool


DR recommends ~170 psi, and I think Jay's kit is in the 200psi range.

Wow, pretty high pressures. We have seen great results in the 80-100 psi range. That is why we have chosen the adjustable 0-100 High flow Regulator.

Man, I never even found any Regulators higher than 125psi. The DR kit does use a regulator to keep the pressure constant under various tank temps and fulness right?!

I would think it does. Otherwise at different temps and different stages of emptyness the pressure is changing but to get a tuneable constant output from the tank you need a regulator.

Sorry my ignorance, but I never saw the DR or Jay's kit..

 

[ekool]

Originally posted by import power on

Man, I never even found any Regulators higher than 125psi. The DR kit does use a regulator to keep the pressure constant under various tank temps and fulness right?!

I would think it does. Otherwise at different temps and different stages of emptyness the pressure is changing but to get a tuneable constant output from the tank you need a regulator.

Sorry my ignorance, but I never saw the DR or Jay's kit..

No, and if you would have done proper testing you would know why.

The bottle will not drop in pressure until it is running near empty. Thats a good thing tho, as you will know exactly when to refill it.

We have (in the real world) done well over 6 months of testing, and on more then just one vehicle.

Many top speed runs and many 1/4 passes at the track yield almost no difference in pressure in the bottle.

 

[import power on]

We have tested tank temp versus tank pressure, and acording to propane pressure guides, the tank pressure does change with temp. We tested and did find fluctuations in the tank pressure not only with the amount that was in the tank but also with tank temp.

Not going to argue, that is just what we have found and also what charts others have published by State agencies and companies that have dealt with propane for 30+ years.

As the ambient temperature rises, propane vapor pressure rises. When the ambient temperature drops, propane vapor pressure drops. To alleviate this temperature induced fluctuation of vapor pressure, you must use a regulator to maintain a constant service pressure.

http://www.elyenergy.com/CO13.pdf (ELY Energy In business for over 30 years)

Tank temp versus Pressure as published by State Govt white papers

Temperature (F) Vapor Pressure (psi)
-30F 5psi
-20F 14psi
-10F 26psi
0F 39psi
10F 56psi
20F 75psi
30F 97psi
40F 122psi
50F 152psi
60F 186psi
70F 224psi
80F 268psi
90F 317psi
100F 371psi

So explain how a kit without a regulator is keeping a constant temp when tank temp changes?

Wouldn't that go against the law of physics?

 

[ekool]

Originally posted by import power on

Not going to argue, that is just what we have found and also what charts others have published by State agencies and companies that have dealt with propane for 30+ years.

First off, ambient temperature is not going to change pressure in itself.

The bottle temperature must change, and that temperature change is going to affect flow. The lower your PSI, the larger the difference temperature is going to make.

Bottle heaters are excellent for maintaining proper bottle temperature, and has been used on high pressure applications (such as NOS, which, BTW does not use a regulator either) for a very long time.

5 psi pressure drop when you are dealing with 44 psi pressure difference is a substantial chunk... 5 psi when you are in the 170 psi range is just a drop in the bucket.

 

[import power on]

I think it is great that there are different setups to choose from. We obviously run a different setup than DR. It is IPOs system, not a copy of DR's. Nothing wrong with that. More than one way to skin a cat.

We have great results and have run it at 80 degrees at night and 115+ in the hot sun. With the regulator system she stayed 100% stable always putting out the exact amount we tuned for. The 100PSI adjustable Reg is coslty but we fealt better about adding it. We also have many customers that demanded it for stable PSI output.

I don't think we should debate back and forth . My kit is this, yours is that.

We are two seperate companies with two deperate offerings.

Choice is good.

 

[TType85]

I havent seen either kit in person, but I know everything that i've seen come from Jay Carter has been of the highest quality.

The Alky kit that OGS used to sell was TOP quality, everything down to the wire that they provided was HQ stuff.

IMO I'd buy from someone I KNOW puts out top quality stuff, not stuff that looks like I could go to Home Depot and put it togheter myself. I'd also rather give my money to someone I know will continue to develop products for our cars.

 

[import power on]

Originally posted by TType85
I havent seen either kit in person, but I know everything that i've seen come from Jay Carter has been of the highest quality.

The Alky kit that OGS used to sell was TOP quality, everything down to the wire that they provided was HQ stuff.

IMO I'd buy from someone I KNOW puts out top quality stuff, not stuff that looks like I could go to Home Depot and put it togheter myself. I'd also rather give my money to someone I know will continue to develop products for our cars.

Nothing wrong with that!

just a side note, no parts on our kit can be purchased from home depot nor are off shelf. All have been machined to meet high flow specs for IPO.

 

[import power on]

Here is the complete kit. You will notice the three sections are connected in the pic. The Hobbs Pressure switch connects to the Switch harness that has pre soldered spades. That harness then plugs into the main harness. The second harness then plugs into the Solenoid, runs up to the main harness under dash and plugs into it. All that is needed is Ignition and ground. There is a pre soldered o ring for ground.