Anyone running propane injection?

Im not surprised you couldnt find a propane regulator that goes over 100 PSI. As far as I know one doesn't exist without having it custom made, which is what we did. The regulator we are using has a 4000 PSI inlet pressure rating and a 400 PSI outlet pressure rating.

As far as pictures, I dont have any of the system in it's current configuration. Actually, I don't have any pictures at all of a completed kit on a car. I do have some pictures of the regulator we are using (work of art) and the solenoids we are using, I can toss those up later.

I can also tell you that our metering and activation is done electronically and is completely adjustable from inside the car. The electronics are universal and will work on any car although we are building them towards the Buick's interior. We have several big name companies from other car makes that want to be resellers so we are attempting to make the kit relatively universal.

We will also offer an upgraded electronics package that adds more features than what the standard cockpit electronics consists of.

Finally, for pricing, the kit is going to be more expensive than the IPO kit. By how much I dont know exactly but our kit costs us more to make than the IPO kit sells for retail. We are looking at several ways of reducing the cost but as it stands now, we have close to $300.00 in solenoid and regulator alone. I had toyed with the idea of ditching the regulator and making it an optional piece because in our testing, slight bottle variances in pressure seem to make no difference in tuning and this would bring the price down tremendously but I know just as soon as I do this, someone is going to come in and rant and rave about a 15 PSI variance in pressure and how it "isnt the same from run to run" blah blah and despite the fact that we've tested this until we're blue in the face and it doesnt seem to make any difference, that won't matter.

For boost levels, etc, look back a page or so for Kenny Brown's post. Kenny is running the prototype kit in true street trim and running 23-24 PSI with 0 detonation. I'm not going to compare it to alcohol because then the alcohol zealots are going to come back into this thread and things will deteriorate again. Ill just say that Ive been down the alcohol path before as everyone knows and I prefer propane.

I really had intended to wait a couple more weeks before anything about this kit was annouced but since Paul decided to post something about the kit, I felt the need to respond, just keep in mind that I wasn't quite ready to announce anything yet that's why we seem unprepared. However, I talked with Dan at OGS tonight for about 3 hours and HOPEFULLY we will start taking preorders in about 2 weeks. The wildcard is the regulator since it's being custom made. If the company can turn them around reasonably quick, we should be able to ship within 3-4 weeks. Fortunately the valve company we're working with turns solenoids around quick so that shouldn't be an issue.
 
Very good info JayC. Electronic metering, that's someting our system don't have. Very nice! I can see why it woud be more expensive. Nice work!

So is your Regulator system adjustable? I see that it has a 400psi output. At 100F the tank would only be up to 371psi and at 80F it is 268psi so 400psi really is not going to be seen unless a heater is used. Is your system adjustable to say 200psi?
 
The system is adjustable from 0-400 PSI on the outlet side via the regulator. Bottle pressure will be the limiting factor but the regulator is completely adjustable.

FWIW here in the Texas heat, where it's getting to almost 100 degrees every day, I have never seen bottle pressures even close to what you are claiming and that's after the bottle sits in a closed trunk of a black car all day.
 
Sounds good.


Those numbers are from Propane spec sheets.

I too am not worried from a tank getting too hot sitting in a vehicle. I have had two 5# tanks in my trunk all summer in AZ. No problems.
 
I'll chime back in since it is getting Buick/propane specific. Boost levels were asked about and as Jay mentioned, I have run 24 lbs with his kit with zero knock. Car would run 17 lbs without the propane.

E.T.'s are more a function of traction and when track testing, I did not work on getting the best launch every time. For comparison reasons, I equalled my best E.T. with a 2/10's slower 60' time. On my car, a tenth in the 60' is worth 2 in the E.T. So theoretically, all things being equal, your results may vary, my car would pick up 4/10ths with a good launch. The MPH on that run was 2.5 higher than any other street trim run I have had.

If anyone has specific questions on Jay's kit and testing results, please feel free to e-mail me at downtownms@aol.com.
 
Originally posted by Downtown
... I have run 24 lbs with his kit with zero knock. Car would run 17 lbs without the propane...

... all things being equal, your results may vary, my car would pick up 4/10ths with a good launch. The MPH on that run was 2.5 higher than any other street trim run I have had...
I am no expert, but that doesn't seem like much of a pickup for a 7 psi increase. Does the propane itself cause any kind of boost increase? Or in other words, does the compressor pressure increase the same amount as the plenum pressure? Unfortunately I know enough to ask that, but I don't know if the correlation is direct or proportional without propane. Or in other words, if the pressure drop across the intercooler/uppipe/throttlebody stays contants or varies depending on the pressure/flow. My guess is that it is proportional.

Tom
 
Well, at least one good thing will come out of this... People will go to propane systems and poor people like myself will finally be able to afford an alky kit.:D
 
Originally posted by tminer

<<I am no expert, but that doesn't seem like much of a pickup for a 7 psi increase.>>

We are still running a 93 octane chip.

<<Does the propane itself cause any kind of boost increase?>>

No, the boost does not automatically go up when the propane comes on.

<<Or in other words, does the compressor pressure increase the same amount as the plenum pressure? Unfortunately I know enough to ask that, but I don't know if the correlation is direct or proportional without propane. Or in other words, if the pressure drop across the intercooler/uppipe/throttlebody stays contants or varies depending on the pressure/flow. My guess is that it is proportional.>>

On Jay's kit, the propane is injected just in front of the throttle body, so if I understand what you are asking, I don't think it would have an effect on pressure drop upstream from it and I don't think there is enough pressure/volume coming from the nozzle to increase pressure downstream from it.

Tom
 
I have got to say that this propane idea is being talked about all over the place!

I have been on several different "turbo" car boards and every one of them has something about propane!

Keep the flow of information coming!!! :D
 
A customers MR2 install

aug07_02_2.jpg



aug07_05_2.jpg
 
Not fully installed yet as you can see (no fuel line). My BOV is leaking currently and im not able to run more than 15psi of boost without it fluctuating rapidly so no point in even hooking it all up yet. A better BOV (one that isnt easily stripped and adjustment screw doesnt blow off) is on the way and I will be sure to post my results when it comes in so I can crank up the boost.
 
Got it all tweaked...

I think Between my Butt-o-meter and the Logger I got her all tweaked. Between the HKS S-AFR and the Propane Pressure and Valve adjustment it's all set.

I ran from 1st - 4th up to 165mph @ 22psi (empty highway-no traffic) Got there very quickly, pulled hard 100% thru all gears and rpms, EGT maxed in top of 4th at 165 @840C. Never ran rich, my car starts to stumble when I run rich, she ran strong and smooth.

Viewed the Log afterwards. I maxed out at 4 knocksums in the middle of all gears (after shifting-b4 propane came back on) but after a fraction of a second the propane killed it to ZERO and stayed at ZERO all the way to redline all gears.

Of course my setup is different than probably anyone elses. But I am running @ 90PSI and close to 2 full turns open on the valve.
 
As I stated before, here are some photos of some of the components we are using in our kit. The pictured valve may not be what we use in the final kit as it's way overkill for what we are doing. That is the regulator that will be included with the kit, however.

reg1.jpg


reg2.jpg


reg3.jpg


valve1.jpg


valve2.jpg


valve3.jpg


We have hit a small snag as one of the parts we were planning on using in the kit is no longer available. I had a supply of them in my toolbox and was using them in development and when we called to order them for the kits, we were told they were no longer available. I don't really expect this to slow things down much as we are already looking for alternate suppliers.
 
BOP-Bristol

Any chance to buy this in person at Bristol?

Or will it be available lots sooner by mail?



:confused:
 
Yes

and

Yes

So far as we dont hit any more snags.
 
Originally posted by AsphaltAnihil8r
:D http://www.boardreader.com
Enter PROPANE and then hold on to your computer;)

AsphaltAnihil8r-thanks alot for posting this!!!

I had been running around trying to find alot of these boards on mine own!!! I had no idea this type of resource was available!!! :D
 
No problem...

also Jay that seems to be the typical Oxl/Acetalyne regulator or from a nitrogen tank...


;)
 
They probably do share the same body however the internals are different. This regulator is constructed for propane use only. We paid dearly to get the prototype done and hopefully the production units are going to be a bit cheaper.
 
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