I’ve tried to hold my tongue, but I can’t any longer. This is going to be long so bear with me. I’m going to tell you about my ordeal in dealing with William Mitchell ( whitettype86 ) buying the 4.1 he had for sale.
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/showthread.php?t=189299&highlight=4.1
This is the ad he posted for the sale:
Have a 4.1 motor for sale,
84 casting block, hard block to lower deck, Ti putty lifter valley.
stock rolled fillet crank<-- BULL S H I T
Stock cleaned up rods with Arp bolts
billet main caps #2 and #3
RJC Girdle
Chrome oil pan
0.030 diamond forged pistons
224/224 precision roller cam
M&A III aluim Heads with 1.65 roller rockers fully ported and polished.
Stock fully ported lower intake to M&A intake
Bhj damper
Champions Billet Alternator and P.S. Pump Bracket <-- NO ALTERNATOR
J&W flywheel
$3500
Motor ran for 15mins had problems with the fast unit. <--- BULLS H I T
Alright, I’m going to start with the emails that were sent and I’ll comment on those below the emails when necessary.
Initial email….
Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:28:28
William,
I'm very interested in the motor ( 4.1 ) you have for sale on turbobuick.com. I did have a few questions though. Is the crank undercut? You stated that it's stock. Does that mean stock specs, i.e. uncut? Also, it has hardblock in it. Is it streetable at all? What would shipping be to 22309? Have you run this motor or a 4.1 before like this?
-Godfrey
His response….
Tue, 20 Jun 2006 20:05:02
Crank is std no cut. Motor is streetable and u will never have to worry
about the car overheating unless u blow a headgasket or thermostat
sticks.
Shipping should be no more than $225. Motor has 15min run time and
never got
the fast program worked out and lost interest and time. Have new baby
and
house to deal with.
William
O.k., he confirmed that the crank should be standard. I opened the motor today ( 8/30 ) and the bearings are .010 on the rods with copper showing on all bearings that were pulled. I don’t know what the mains are yet. I didn’t feel like pulling the girdle apart.
Next email from me…
Wed, 21 Jun 2006 08:44:04
Oh, I did have a couple more things. I can make payment any way you like. However you want to do it. Once payment is recieved, how soon do you think you could have the motor out? I get married next Saturday ( July 1 ) and I won't be back until the 8th of July. How are you shipping it? Does it have to be delivered to a business?
His response…
Wed, 21 Jun 2006 12:42:40
Motor is coming out this week, Once payment cleared
I'll send it right out by freight and it would be easier if it was
delivered to a business. Motor is complete long block with water pump and champions billet aluminum bracket, fuel injector rail and thats it. For another $300 I'll throw in a 70mm accufab throttle body with precision phelnum all polished and Rjc spacer. I"ll call u tonight.
It get’s good, I promise. Just keep reading.
Next email from me…
Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:43:46
I've sent the money out. I've attached a PDF file that
has a copy of the confirmation reciept from the USPS.
Also, if you could keep this to yourself it would be
greatly appreciated. Also, am I getting any of the
sensors. Cam Sensor, Crank Sensor, etc? Oh, and what compression did you build this motor to?
His response…
Thu, 22 Jun 2006 18:30:02
Motor is 9 to 1 compression and yes you'll get cam sensor and crank
sensor
and the sensors on the manifold.
William
Next email from me…
Wed, 5 Jul 2006 13:59:57
Dude...I'm really starting to get upset. You've pushed the ship date
Out twice and you haven't returned my calls nor have you given me any
status. If this were a set of valve covers it wouldn't be a big deal. I've sent you $4025.00 and you can't pick up the phone and tell me what's going on?!!?!?!? Give me a call man. Let me know something. I'm not hard to deal with, but you cannot expect me to sit by and idle while you have that much of my money. Give me a call. You will get my voicemail until Friday until I get off of this ship. I'll be monitoring my email though.
Notice that it’s been exactly two weeks. I got married, and came back from my honeymoom expecting to sneak up on some friends with a 4.1 and kick some a s s! Nope, WRONG!
His response…
Fri, 07 Jul 2006 06:41:04
hey...this has been a hectic week...my girlfriends grandma died
unexpectedly,and we had funeral svcs to go to, then our realtor(finally) found us a house, and we have been busy trying to get our stuff moved in. I apologize for the delay in responding to you...but like i said, we just moved, and my girlfriend just got a phone line turned on...won't even have high speed internet until next week. Anyway...again, I am sorry man, I am not trying to blow you off or leave u in the dark...i'll call u later today.
oh....and congrats on the wedding man!
William
How about, f u c k the congrats. Where’s my s hi t! He had an excuse for everything!
Next email from me…
Fri, 7 Jul 2006 09:00:47
I can understand being busy. Again, like I said I am not hard to deal
with. I just needed to know what was going on. Can we work out some sort of deal on the 300 for the tb/plenum? I was kinda expecting this thing to be here when I got back so I could get my car out of storage. Now it's going to be in there longer than expected. I'm off of the cruise ship and back home. You can call me anytime.
I’m still being nice at this point!
His response…
Wed, 12 Jul 2006 21:40:24
Godfrey,
I need that address to the shop again. I lost it on the move and its
somewhere in the boxes. Sorry for the delay.I hate moving and hate
funerals
and work. Let me know so I can ship your motor out this week.
Thanks,
william
Can you guess if it shipped or not?!
Next email from me…after trying to contact him since July 12th.
Mon, 24 Jul 2006 10:26:25
Dude...this is really getting to be outrageous! If you
don't let me know something legal action will be
taken. I have no problem coming to Arizona to see you!
You WILL NOT take money from me, PERIOD! I asked you
nicely to keep me in the loop and you're not doing
that. I'm about tired of being nice about this! If you
didn't have the motor out and ready to go when you
posted it for sale, you never should have posted it. I
have done EVERYTHING that I said that I was going to
do. You have done nothing but cash my checks and keep
telling me the motor is coming next week for a month!
You have until the end of the week before I move
forward with legal action!
I ended up having to go to Arizona, but you’ll read about that later!
His response…
Mon, 24 Jul 2006 17:07:23
Godfrey,
I know your frustrated and understand. Motor is out its been out. The
Car has been sold also and gone. I don't have any excuses. I've been busy with work and can't get things situated to ship the motor. It took me month to ship a transmission. I've been out of town since the 12th of July. I'm working on getting the motor out to u this week. I didn't know it was going to be this difficuilt but I will get the motor to u. I promise and I'm sorry for this long period and understand your fustrastion. If u like I can call u tomorrow if u like. I need your your number again.
William Mitchell
Now he tells me the muthaf uc kin’ motor has been out of the car! So it’s just sitting? Can you guess if it shipped or not?!
Next email from me…
Thu, 27 Jul 2006 04:29:02
Is the motor on it's way yet? Would it be possible for
you to take it to Nick and have him crate it and ship
it? You've got to do something. I'm about to start
traveling again and I need to know that this thing is
on it's way. I need to know what to tell this shop
before I leave. They keep asking me if it's coming and
they have to make space for it.
His response…
Its ready to go to the freight company. I got sick I have some kind of
bacteria called Mrsa which causes flu and allot of degusting crap on
your body that looks like flesh eating virus. And supposedly its contagious. So I've missed work intill it goes away. The motor is still at my friends house and I'm planning on shipping it from there. It only cost $220 to ship it to u. But first I have to get well. Sorry man. This really sucks. I'll call Nick tomorrow and see if he can help me out. I have a couple more parts that Nick needs to pick up. I'll let u know and sorry for all the f@$& problems.
William Mitchell
He never called Nick, I called Nick! I really didn’t give a f cuk about no disease, no dead grandmother’s, no new house problems, no new baby! Neither one of those had s hi t to do with $4000.00! That disease must have eaten his balls and his brain!
Next email from me…
Fri, 28 Jul 2006 08:00:33
Get better dude! Seems you've had a rough go lately. I appreciate the update.
I already had my flight to Tucson to visit him in Phoenix! I was just waiting to leave!
There is no next email from me until August 12th! I got to Tucson and had to do some work out at Ft. Huachuca. Friday night ( 8/4 ) I called and told him that I was coming to Phoenix Saturday morning! He squirmed and tried to give me the run around and say I didn’t have to come out there. He said he’d get the motor over to Nick so he could ship it and everything would be o.k.. I made it brutally clear that I was COMING TO PHOENIX! He called me back and said he could meet me at the house where the motor was on Saturday morning. I drove 3 hours from Sierra Vista, AZ to Phoenix, AZ to meet him at some house where the motor was. I get there and he isn’t even there yet. This old guy comes out and let’s me in the garage where the motor was. I bought the plenum/throttle body from him that he mentioned previously and asked him to leave it on the motor. No dice, there was dust ( thick dust ) all down in the intake. The motor was covered in this orange dust like the s hi t had bee left outside or something. Anyway, he shows up about 30 minutes later. He’s going on and on about how he didn’t run the motor much and just trying to make small talk. Honestly, I wanted to crack his skull for having me come all the way out here for some this crap. He ended up having to call a buddy to come over to get the motor over to Nick’s house. I’ve never seen someone a cu nt hair away from an as s woopin’ and still trying to be friendly. I’m telling you, that disease did a number on his brain! We get to Nick’s house and Nick agrees to ship the motor for me. Thanks Nick! Well, William couldn’t find the plenum/throttle body and promise to either find it or buy a new one and send it to me. What..the…f cuk…ever! So, the motor arrived and I still haven’t received my plenum/throttle body or the $300.00 I gave him for it.
Next email from me…..
Sat, 12 Aug 2006 16:34:53
It's been a week and I haven't heard anything from you. I really,
really don't want to have to come back to Phoenix.
His Reponse….
Sun, 13 Aug 2006 16:56:28
Give me two weeks, Thats what I told u on that Saturday. The part was
Stolen to the best of my knowledge and I couldn't replace nor pay u at that moment.I told u give me two weeks and I'll either refund u the money or send the part to u. I'll contact u next Saturday.
Thanks
William
Well, it’s been more than two weeks now? This is the absolute last response that I got from him and it’s now August 30, 2006 ( my birthday )
Today and friend and I finally got around to pulling the motor out of the plastic and off of the shipping stand. We decided to flip it over and check the bearings. Well, in touching the flexplate that crank moved more than it should. We must have pulled 3 or so rod caps and they were all showing copper. The crank is hurt, the cylinder walls have scratches in them, the number 3 cylinder and a f ck ing washer in it that wouldn't allow us to spin the motor over, and the list went on and on! The motor is now at a machine shop getting all of this s hit fixed! When and If I ever see this guy again it's going to be a misunderstanding!
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/showthread.php?t=189299&highlight=4.1
This is the ad he posted for the sale:
Have a 4.1 motor for sale,
84 casting block, hard block to lower deck, Ti putty lifter valley.
stock rolled fillet crank<-- BULL S H I T
Stock cleaned up rods with Arp bolts
billet main caps #2 and #3
RJC Girdle
Chrome oil pan
0.030 diamond forged pistons
224/224 precision roller cam
M&A III aluim Heads with 1.65 roller rockers fully ported and polished.
Stock fully ported lower intake to M&A intake
Bhj damper
Champions Billet Alternator and P.S. Pump Bracket <-- NO ALTERNATOR
J&W flywheel
$3500
Motor ran for 15mins had problems with the fast unit. <--- BULLS H I T
Alright, I’m going to start with the emails that were sent and I’ll comment on those below the emails when necessary.
Initial email….
Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:28:28
William,
I'm very interested in the motor ( 4.1 ) you have for sale on turbobuick.com. I did have a few questions though. Is the crank undercut? You stated that it's stock. Does that mean stock specs, i.e. uncut? Also, it has hardblock in it. Is it streetable at all? What would shipping be to 22309? Have you run this motor or a 4.1 before like this?
-Godfrey
His response….
Tue, 20 Jun 2006 20:05:02
Crank is std no cut. Motor is streetable and u will never have to worry
about the car overheating unless u blow a headgasket or thermostat
sticks.
Shipping should be no more than $225. Motor has 15min run time and
never got
the fast program worked out and lost interest and time. Have new baby
and
house to deal with.
William
O.k., he confirmed that the crank should be standard. I opened the motor today ( 8/30 ) and the bearings are .010 on the rods with copper showing on all bearings that were pulled. I don’t know what the mains are yet. I didn’t feel like pulling the girdle apart.
Next email from me…
Wed, 21 Jun 2006 08:44:04
Oh, I did have a couple more things. I can make payment any way you like. However you want to do it. Once payment is recieved, how soon do you think you could have the motor out? I get married next Saturday ( July 1 ) and I won't be back until the 8th of July. How are you shipping it? Does it have to be delivered to a business?
His response…
Wed, 21 Jun 2006 12:42:40
Motor is coming out this week, Once payment cleared
I'll send it right out by freight and it would be easier if it was
delivered to a business. Motor is complete long block with water pump and champions billet aluminum bracket, fuel injector rail and thats it. For another $300 I'll throw in a 70mm accufab throttle body with precision phelnum all polished and Rjc spacer. I"ll call u tonight.
It get’s good, I promise. Just keep reading.
Next email from me…
Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:43:46
I've sent the money out. I've attached a PDF file that
has a copy of the confirmation reciept from the USPS.
Also, if you could keep this to yourself it would be
greatly appreciated. Also, am I getting any of the
sensors. Cam Sensor, Crank Sensor, etc? Oh, and what compression did you build this motor to?
His response…
Thu, 22 Jun 2006 18:30:02
Motor is 9 to 1 compression and yes you'll get cam sensor and crank
sensor
and the sensors on the manifold.
William
Next email from me…
Wed, 5 Jul 2006 13:59:57
Dude...I'm really starting to get upset. You've pushed the ship date
Out twice and you haven't returned my calls nor have you given me any
status. If this were a set of valve covers it wouldn't be a big deal. I've sent you $4025.00 and you can't pick up the phone and tell me what's going on?!!?!?!? Give me a call man. Let me know something. I'm not hard to deal with, but you cannot expect me to sit by and idle while you have that much of my money. Give me a call. You will get my voicemail until Friday until I get off of this ship. I'll be monitoring my email though.
Notice that it’s been exactly two weeks. I got married, and came back from my honeymoom expecting to sneak up on some friends with a 4.1 and kick some a s s! Nope, WRONG!
His response…
Fri, 07 Jul 2006 06:41:04
hey...this has been a hectic week...my girlfriends grandma died
unexpectedly,and we had funeral svcs to go to, then our realtor(finally) found us a house, and we have been busy trying to get our stuff moved in. I apologize for the delay in responding to you...but like i said, we just moved, and my girlfriend just got a phone line turned on...won't even have high speed internet until next week. Anyway...again, I am sorry man, I am not trying to blow you off or leave u in the dark...i'll call u later today.
oh....and congrats on the wedding man!
William
How about, f u c k the congrats. Where’s my s hi t! He had an excuse for everything!
Next email from me…
Fri, 7 Jul 2006 09:00:47
I can understand being busy. Again, like I said I am not hard to deal
with. I just needed to know what was going on. Can we work out some sort of deal on the 300 for the tb/plenum? I was kinda expecting this thing to be here when I got back so I could get my car out of storage. Now it's going to be in there longer than expected. I'm off of the cruise ship and back home. You can call me anytime.
I’m still being nice at this point!
His response…
Wed, 12 Jul 2006 21:40:24
Godfrey,
I need that address to the shop again. I lost it on the move and its
somewhere in the boxes. Sorry for the delay.I hate moving and hate
funerals
and work. Let me know so I can ship your motor out this week.
Thanks,
william
Can you guess if it shipped or not?!
Next email from me…after trying to contact him since July 12th.
Mon, 24 Jul 2006 10:26:25
Dude...this is really getting to be outrageous! If you
don't let me know something legal action will be
taken. I have no problem coming to Arizona to see you!
You WILL NOT take money from me, PERIOD! I asked you
nicely to keep me in the loop and you're not doing
that. I'm about tired of being nice about this! If you
didn't have the motor out and ready to go when you
posted it for sale, you never should have posted it. I
have done EVERYTHING that I said that I was going to
do. You have done nothing but cash my checks and keep
telling me the motor is coming next week for a month!
You have until the end of the week before I move
forward with legal action!
I ended up having to go to Arizona, but you’ll read about that later!
His response…
Mon, 24 Jul 2006 17:07:23
Godfrey,
I know your frustrated and understand. Motor is out its been out. The
Car has been sold also and gone. I don't have any excuses. I've been busy with work and can't get things situated to ship the motor. It took me month to ship a transmission. I've been out of town since the 12th of July. I'm working on getting the motor out to u this week. I didn't know it was going to be this difficuilt but I will get the motor to u. I promise and I'm sorry for this long period and understand your fustrastion. If u like I can call u tomorrow if u like. I need your your number again.
William Mitchell
Now he tells me the muthaf uc kin’ motor has been out of the car! So it’s just sitting? Can you guess if it shipped or not?!
Next email from me…
Thu, 27 Jul 2006 04:29:02
Is the motor on it's way yet? Would it be possible for
you to take it to Nick and have him crate it and ship
it? You've got to do something. I'm about to start
traveling again and I need to know that this thing is
on it's way. I need to know what to tell this shop
before I leave. They keep asking me if it's coming and
they have to make space for it.
His response…
Its ready to go to the freight company. I got sick I have some kind of
bacteria called Mrsa which causes flu and allot of degusting crap on
your body that looks like flesh eating virus. And supposedly its contagious. So I've missed work intill it goes away. The motor is still at my friends house and I'm planning on shipping it from there. It only cost $220 to ship it to u. But first I have to get well. Sorry man. This really sucks. I'll call Nick tomorrow and see if he can help me out. I have a couple more parts that Nick needs to pick up. I'll let u know and sorry for all the f@$& problems.
William Mitchell
He never called Nick, I called Nick! I really didn’t give a f cuk about no disease, no dead grandmother’s, no new house problems, no new baby! Neither one of those had s hi t to do with $4000.00! That disease must have eaten his balls and his brain!
Next email from me…
Fri, 28 Jul 2006 08:00:33
Get better dude! Seems you've had a rough go lately. I appreciate the update.
I already had my flight to Tucson to visit him in Phoenix! I was just waiting to leave!
There is no next email from me until August 12th! I got to Tucson and had to do some work out at Ft. Huachuca. Friday night ( 8/4 ) I called and told him that I was coming to Phoenix Saturday morning! He squirmed and tried to give me the run around and say I didn’t have to come out there. He said he’d get the motor over to Nick so he could ship it and everything would be o.k.. I made it brutally clear that I was COMING TO PHOENIX! He called me back and said he could meet me at the house where the motor was on Saturday morning. I drove 3 hours from Sierra Vista, AZ to Phoenix, AZ to meet him at some house where the motor was. I get there and he isn’t even there yet. This old guy comes out and let’s me in the garage where the motor was. I bought the plenum/throttle body from him that he mentioned previously and asked him to leave it on the motor. No dice, there was dust ( thick dust ) all down in the intake. The motor was covered in this orange dust like the s hi t had bee left outside or something. Anyway, he shows up about 30 minutes later. He’s going on and on about how he didn’t run the motor much and just trying to make small talk. Honestly, I wanted to crack his skull for having me come all the way out here for some this crap. He ended up having to call a buddy to come over to get the motor over to Nick’s house. I’ve never seen someone a cu nt hair away from an as s woopin’ and still trying to be friendly. I’m telling you, that disease did a number on his brain! We get to Nick’s house and Nick agrees to ship the motor for me. Thanks Nick! Well, William couldn’t find the plenum/throttle body and promise to either find it or buy a new one and send it to me. What..the…f cuk…ever! So, the motor arrived and I still haven’t received my plenum/throttle body or the $300.00 I gave him for it.
Next email from me…..
Sat, 12 Aug 2006 16:34:53
It's been a week and I haven't heard anything from you. I really,
really don't want to have to come back to Phoenix.
His Reponse….
Sun, 13 Aug 2006 16:56:28
Give me two weeks, Thats what I told u on that Saturday. The part was
Stolen to the best of my knowledge and I couldn't replace nor pay u at that moment.I told u give me two weeks and I'll either refund u the money or send the part to u. I'll contact u next Saturday.
Thanks
William
Well, it’s been more than two weeks now? This is the absolute last response that I got from him and it’s now August 30, 2006 ( my birthday )
Today and friend and I finally got around to pulling the motor out of the plastic and off of the shipping stand. We decided to flip it over and check the bearings. Well, in touching the flexplate that crank moved more than it should. We must have pulled 3 or so rod caps and they were all showing copper. The crank is hurt, the cylinder walls have scratches in them, the number 3 cylinder and a f ck ing washer in it that wouldn't allow us to spin the motor over, and the list went on and on! The motor is now at a machine shop getting all of this s hit fixed! When and If I ever see this guy again it's going to be a misunderstanding!
