ball bearing upgrade ,is it worth $500

[JCotton]

Lee, thanks for your comments, I'll take serious consideration of your input..........

 

[GNVAIR]

You do that Jack.

 

[postal]

I've heard of guys running in the 10's with a stock Intercooler, and heard of guys running 12's with front mounts..... stockers must be better.

You could make a list a mile long with all kind of crazy examples like that. You would not proove any thing except that some people are cranking the wick up on thier set up and other guys aren't.

The question was:

hey guys, in everybody's opinion,is it worth an extra 500.00 to have ball bearings on a cpt66 or is a gt67 comparible,non bb.

So this question should be directed at guys who have run both, because they are the only guys who can state wether or not they feel like they got thier moneys worth. I say I feel like I got my $$'s worth.

Jason

 

[trading t/a]

I bought a BB 65 from cotton not too long ago. It came with an .82 housing on it. Even with the restalled D5 it still came up nice. I took it back off cause 50's wouldn't cut it when I would of eventually turn the wick up. I have since put the pt-51 back on the car(not a hard choice about the same amount of miles on each turbo currently) and I can say it's about even maybe a slight slower with the cpt-65.

Is it worth it? Hell yes! That and you can hear when it's gonna go about 2 minutes before it does.

 

[bogie1]

I have run a stock and front mount IC-I can tell you that I can run 3 more lbs of boost with the front mount on pump gas with out any knock. That's got to be 30 HP.
As far as the BB issue I will be a good test because I have a CPT65 BB comming from Jack nect week (running a TA49 now). I will post after the install if my motor doesn't blow with the power increase I am expecting.

 

[S2V6RACER]

Looks like we got ourselves a grudge match in the making between GNVAIR and Jack Cotton. How about we set a date at BG or Norwalk. Rules are simple.

1. Jack runs his BB turbo
2. GNVAIR runs whatever he wants.
3. Will be run heads up on a pro-tree.

Fastest guy wins and will be considered the almighty "GOD".

 

[GNVAIR]

and how about Ted A takes a long walk off a short pier.

 

[GNVYUS 1]

My racer comment has to do with the fact that you can beat on a BB turbo more than a non bb turbo. Saves you money during the season due to multiple rebuilds etc. One of my turbo mags had a guy go through 3 non bb turbos one season, next season with the BB it lasted the whole time. I can possibly dig it up somewhere.

Fact remains, oil debris kills both turbos equally. So do you want a few 100 rpm spool up for the street for $500 or two turbo's ( $350 rebuild ) and $150 in your pocket? My next turbo upgrade is the GT67, and for $350 I can get another one when it dies.

 

[broke1]

Glad to see that im not the only one who Lee argues with

Quicker spoolup alone is worth the $$$ IMO.

It cost more so it must be better right??

Fact is that you never see anyone complain about spool on a BB turbo.

 

[Otto J]

I ran a BB 72 turbo for a year, it was easy to spool with a tighter convertor,I know am running a GTS76 non BB and it spools just as fast, BUT with a bit looser convertor, But tuning and engine combo and matching the right turbo to that combo is very important also,Cam profile alone can change spoolup.I can get this new turbo to 20#sin 2 secs,Which for its size is great.
I liked my BB turbo but it also had been rebuilt twice in less than 2 years.
Once the first year i had it,Then i sold it,installed it, and it broke the next day.They were greta at t-netics at it was fixed both times at no cost to me,But did not prove to be any more reliable either way,And yea i had a pre filter on the oil line also.

Just my expierience

So to answer in my opinion the original question,Depending on combo and what your ultimate goal is,will depend on a yes or no answer.

 

[S2V6RACER]

Originally posted by GNVAIR
and how about Ted A takes a long walk off a short pier.

I try that all the time. They banned me from walking on them around here, anyways there is ice under them now.

 

[JCotton]

They banned me from walking on them around here, anyways there is ice under them now.

Ted, I can send you a pair of my old skates, if you need some.....

 

[S2V6RACER]

Originally posted by JCotton
Ted, I can send you a pair of my old skates, if you need some.....

Are they BB or regular? Which is faster, BB or regular and is it worth the $500 to upgrade??

 

[JCotton]

Are they BB or regular? Which is faster, BB or regular and is it worth the $500 to upgrade??

Actually, it's your choice, we use both depending on the application.................. I have a pair of "roller" blades that should get you down the dock and up to speed faster than non BB skates, just not sure how they will work once you get to the ice..... Maybe someone with some actual experience can chime in.............

 

[baadgn]

NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

 

[Taffy]

Since everyone else is replying in this thread, I will give my $.01.

We have tested a LOT of different turbos from a lot of different manufacturors. We build more cars for road racing and drifting than drag racing. I personally like drag racing the most.

Of all of the turbos that we have ever used that where ball bearing, the only ones that will take repeated, long term abuse are the Garrett Dual Ball Bearing turbos. During long term high boost ( I am talking about from 1-3 minutes at high boost/rev limiter driving here) the Innovative and the Turbonetics Ball Baring turbos that we have used all failed. Most of these turbos are on Japanese cars ie: Nissan 240sx, Skylines, RX-7s, Supras.

Turbonetics has a warrantee, but after a while, killing turbos gets old. So we only sell and use Garrett Dual Ball Bearing turbos.

When it comes to people calling the GT wheels "hype", that is total crap. There have been numerous dyno tests on the net comparing the Turbnetics ball bearing turbos to the Garrett equivalent turbo with no ball bearing. The Garrett turbos, in every case, have out powered the Turbonetics.

Is the $500 Single Ball Bearing Turbonetics upgrade worth it, hell yes if you are running a Turbonetics non ball bearing turbo. If you are comparing a Garrett non ball bearing to a Turbonetics Ball Bearing, then no, it is not worth the extra $$.

 

[john evans]

wow, sorry this turned into a huge fight.i just wanted poeples experiences with one vs. the other in relation to a street car.i'm more confused now than i was before.ball bearing turbo's aren't very reliable i'll assume?my car mph's at 120 w/a n/l convertor.just wanted a good idea for an upgrade from my pt52 w85 exh.housing.thanks

 

[Nick Micale]

Originally posted by john evans
wow, sorry this turned into a huge fight.i just wanted poeples experiences with one vs. the other in relation to a street car.i'm more confused now than i was before.ball bearing turbo's aren't very reliable i'll assume?my car mph's at 120 w/a n/l convertor.just wanted a good idea for an upgrade from my pt52 w85 exh.housing.thanks

Don't get discouraged John, lots of good info here.

You just need to figure out where you want to go, and then extract the applicable and pertinant data for your goals.

Bet you and your friends have had similar "discussions" and disagreements, it does not mean they are going to blows over it. Some of these guys are just the same in person, as here, and all opinions are welcome.

I just don't give Jack as much flak in person as I do here since he is bigger than me!

Anyway, I am now running a BB turbo in my race car and spools faster than any of the other dozen or so turbos I have used. Cannot comment on reliability as it is not street driven. Is is also water cooled so that may help it live longer.

 

[JCotton]

I just don't give Jack as much flak in person as I do here since he is bigger than me!

So that explains it............. I would never hurt you Nick............. honest. I know I have been known to lose my "kewl" once or twice emotionally, but never physically............ at least not for the last 19 years... although there has been once or twice.................

John,

Like Nick said, lots of good experiences here, sifting through fact, fiction and relevent info is the trick. From what I have seen the guys that shared their experiences from actual use of a BB turbos have been positive experiences, for the most part. Most of the rest of the posts have been related to other vehicles not even remotely associated with what the intent of this thread was, not to mention the personal attacks when I or someone else doesn't agree. If you were to do a history search on this topic from the past, I am sure you will see some of the same names both for and against, not to mention many more guys over the years with positive experiences. By the same token, if you did a search of other turbo failures, I am sure you will be really scratching your head........ There are many good products out there, but when it comes to performance, everyone has a failure at some point, for many different reasons, it's not always the product.
back to work here, lots of turbos came in today that I have to prepare for shipping.....

 

[Fuelie600]

Taffy, who builds your double ball bearing turbos? I had Red Armstrong check into a ball bearing for me from John Craig, at the begining of this week. John told Red he will not build a BB turbo. Might there be something with the BB Garretts, that has not been sorted out yet? Who knows.

Everyone should do their home work, before buying. I did! T-netics 70Qbb.